Better Learning For BJJ: What do you actually Know?

Episode 343: Are you struggling to remember what was taught in class this week? When coaches teach a different technique and concept every week, it can be hard to keep up and retain the information. BJJ as a body of knowledge is constantly growing and evolving with specialised techniques and strategies for both Gi and No-Gi grappling. JT & Joey dig deeper on what can help and hinder your learning at Jiu-Jitsu and why spending multiple sessions on one position or a sequence of attacks and defences can really help you achieve a good understanding and real learning.
Everybody learns differently but giving people more opportunity and greater exposure to skills is key, this might require a different approach to the way coaches are teaching week to week. Joey explains his recent experience having wins with his students learning back control and JT talks about how being competitive and not making mistakes can actually mess up your learning. When you struggle to remember what's being taught in class its hard to build your game and make progress, this is where you could benefit from choosing your own personal BJJ project and working on it consistently.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:07

A good martial artist does not become tense, but ready. Essentially, at this point, the fight is over, so you pretty much flow with the goal. Who is worthy to be trusted with the secret to limitless power? I'm ready. This episode is brought to you by parry athletics, the exclusive apparel sponsor of the bulletproof for bjj podcast. We've been working with these guys for quite some time now. We absolutely love the company. We love their gear, both for training and also just looking slick off the mats. They've got excellent no-gi wears shorts, t-shirts, all that cool stuff. If you want to get yourself into some Parry clothes or you want to rock the Bulletproof for BJJ exclusive merch, you've got to go through Parry. Go to parryathleticscom and use the code BULLETPROOF20 to get 20% off your order. They ship internationallycom and use the code BULLETPROOF20 to get 20% off your order. They ship internationally. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another Bulletproof for BJJ podcast.

Speaker 1: 1:10

Are you actually learning at BJJ? So you show up to class, you're there on time. Coach says show up. You show up, but at the end of the class you're like what did we learn? Now, we have talked about this before, but we're going to go deeper because I want to bring this up Many of us are doing our best, but if you actually were to ask somebody hey, what did you learn last class? People just give you a blank stare, like it's like you're trying to ask them can we roll? Can we just bump, slap, bump? What are you talking about? And that's the hardest thing. If you can't actually put a finger on it, then it means that you're not really absorbing it.

Speaker 1: 1:49

And it's interesting because there was a question about wisdom. It's like how can you measure wisdom? And you know people were coming up with all this pithy bullshit and I came through. Where was this question? This question was on AirChat, and there's actually now, if you guys go to the app store, airchat, it's like audio Twitter. It's interesting. They have a BJJ channel which I now moderate. Interestingly enough, boom Ooh, look out, there's only about 400 people in there, but it's growing. I mean, airchat has thousands of people, many interesting people on there. It's all voice notes Right on. It's very good. But there's this question about oh, wisdom, like how can you know someone knows something? And there was a lot of bullshit in there. And there's a great saying that I have modified accordingly to this.

Speaker 1: 2:33

So the saying goes it's not the days in your life, it's the life in your days, right, and it's talking about having a full life and a life experience I would go to. It's not the classes you know, it's not the the classes you know. It's not how many classes you did to learn what you know, it's it's the amount of learning you did in the classes. Like how much did you actually learn that class? It wasn't quite roll off the tongue the same, but the sentiment I get it. You know what I mean. So it's like how much learning was in the classes that you actually did? You might have done 180 classes and learned three things. Yeah, you know what I mean. Oh, yeah, but I still let's, let's go to because it's interesting.

Speaker 1: 3:10

I brought this up with joe and then you mentioned you. You had a bit of a win recently. Well, yeah, I just um from a teaching. Yeah, like I realized for myself that that just learning new techniques every session, I don't retain anything and I think that was probably for the majority of my formative years of jiu-jitsu. What was being done. It was just like hey, tonight we're doing this, tonight we're doing this. Hey, we're doing a defense, hey, we're doing an attack. You know I was like fuck man, okay, I've still got the same four techniques that I use. You know, um, and even the idea of using the technique that we use in the class in the rolling that night was like no, that doesn't usually happen.

Speaker 1: 3:46

But I've been exposed more recently to working on the same thing for sessions, like multiple sessions, and it works really well. For me it's like hey, we're just working on this thing. Hey, we're picking up on that thing again. Hey, we're doing it again, and there'll be some variation and whatnot, but it's largely thematically the same or positionally the same. So I've been doing that when I've been teaching over at Vantage on Monday nights and it really selfishly. I've been like well, I'm just going to teach the guys what I've been trying to learn and what I was intending to be studying, even though I'm not actually rolling at the moment. And the feedback from the guys is it's actually really good because we're just doing the same shit for weeks on end. I'm actually getting a chance to get a grasp of it and use it, retain it.

Speaker 1: 4:31

And I saw a couple of guys the other night and they'll someone asked like oh, what's your? You know what's your favorite position? One of the guys like bar, really the back, like attacking in the back, and uh. And then he's like, well, since we did because we did six weeks of attacking of the back he's like since we did those six weeks I've just been fucking smashing it and I was like that's so cool, nice, you know. And so, yeah, I feel like that suits me and it seems to be suiting a couple of the cats there.

Speaker 1: 4:55

Yeah, and I think for anyone out there, whenever you study any topic, whether it's a language, or you're studying something at uni or you're learning something new for your work, like you're upskilling relevant to your job, they usually get you. You know, repetition is part of it and it's really because the first time you do something it doesn't always click, you don't always relate to it. And then third time, fourth time, maybe even the 10th time, you're like oh fuck, now I'm getting it, getting it, you know. And so if you're only ever exposed to something kind of once and then you don't see it again for eight weeks, how are you supposed to implement it? When you're getting big joey's crossface of death? That's right, like yeah, how are you gonna implement that new thing when someone's just gonna like use the thing that they've been grooving for fucking 10 years against you.

Speaker 1: 5:40

It's. It's a bit unfair in a way. Yeah, yeah, it's unfair, and it is like you're really only scratching the surface, aren't you? Yeah, like, say, how many times have you been taught an armbar? Yeah, right. And. But it's not. Like you go to a class and the coach goes, hey, we're going to do an armbar from close guard. And you're like, cool, I'm going to learn, probably pick up something new from this, and it might not be explicitly something they say, but it just might be the fact that you're repeating that learning process for that technique. You already know it very well, but you're now observing different elements of it and you're like, fuck, yeah, okay, so that it kind of speaks to yeah, like, the more you do the same thing, the more you start to peel back these layers of the onion to find a new layer, and it can be delivered in different ways as well.

Speaker 1: 6:26

I think that's a thing too, you know. They say you never step into the same river twice, because the river is always flowing. Listen to you. I'm just the chinese proverbs, I'm just stealing all. No, no, these are taiwanese. It doesn't mean the chinese can't come in and claim them later. Throwback to our q a episode.

Speaker 1: 6:46

For those who don't know about it as long as you're not making uh, you know air pentium processors, you're safe. Um, shout out, jensen huang. For most people out there they talk about, like reading books. So maybe you don't read books, you don't relate to this, but you might watch movies. So when you first watch the movie it might have created an impression on you or maybe it didn't. And then later you watch it and you're like, oh my god, I just picked something else up. It hits you differently because of who you are in that moment.

Speaker 1: 7:12

And if you've come into class on a given day and you're just fucking thinking about choking your boss out and you're just so under pressure about a bill or mortgage payments or losing your job or some shit, you're not going to be very intentional or receptive to the information. So that's not even the coach's fault, that's just life. No, that's just the learning process, yeah, but if you then come in the following Monday, but then they're going over a slightly different detail about the same position, probably similar to what you're talking about, but this time you've had a more relaxing weekend and stuff like that, and you're feeling like fresher. You had a better night's sleep. Oh, you absorbed that information. But you've got to have the opportunity, yeah.

Speaker 1: 7:56

And to that point I would say that, even if you hadn't like, even if everything was perfect and you came in and you're like ready to learn, still, like drilling one this thing for 15 minutes isn't enough for you to cement it. No, not at all right. So, even if everything else is great, you need multiple sessions, right, you need heaps, yeah, yeah, because, because you know, like I'm looking at it, like all right, you know we like say taking, uh, taking back control as a thing. You're like all right, well, what are the different things that you, that you need to learn in? Or like say, I'm teaching you, uh, an attack from the back. We're looking at a rear naked choke. Well, you got to get good at taking the back first yeah, that's a big job. Got to get there, yeah. Then you got to get good at controlling. So we first yeah, that's a big job, you got to get there, yeah. Then you got to get good at controlling. So we've got to understand seatbelt mechanics, but also what your legs are doing, right. Then we've got to get good at the grip fight, dealing with defenses. Exactly so. Dealing with defenses, winning the grip fight, getting to a dominant grip position so you can apply the choke, and then how do you defend when they start to defend the choke? And then what if the choke's not an option and you got to go to a fucking triangle or some shit or yeah. So there's so many layers there that you're like we'll cover all of those. In that if I'm teaching you a back attack tonight, we're probably going to cover all of those five or six things. But fuck, we're just brushed like. We're just brushing over them very quickly. So it's like the next time is another chance to hit it all again. And yeah, I'm about it.

Speaker 1: 9:22

What I wanted to say about learning is like you can really dictate the success of an individual in any endeavor based on their ability to learn right. If somebody can't learn a new skill, they're going to struggle. But you see someone who it doesn't mean that, oh, they're talented, but you give someone a job and they work it out. You don't necessarily have to tell them every bit of information, they just make it up for themselves on the spot because they're determined to make the progress. And it doesn't mean they perfected it, but they just they might improvise a bit and it's because they are trying to work towards mastering whatever the thing is and I'm not saying this is innate, this can be learned but basically, how good of a problem solver are you? Like? Do you just get stuck and give up or do you go ah, I just fucking bridged into it, or I just grabbed the wrist and pulled it that way and I just, you know, yeah, I just, I just tried to, you know, do something which made it effective, regardless of the coach's input or whatever like that.

Speaker 1: 10:20

So I believe a big part of you being a successful learner is just your ability to kind of solve your own problems. In a way, just because you don't know the answer doesn't mean you can't like, improvise or make something up, and then that gets you to the next point. It doesn't mean it's totally right, like that might put you in a bad spot, but then that's learning too. I feel like a lot of us become dependent on I have to do exactly what the coach told me in order for this to be right, and that actually in the moment doesn't necessarily help you. So ask yourself, like am I a good problem solver?

Speaker 1: 10:56

Or in what situation am I a good problem solver, for example, you get people who are like Rubik's Cube geniuses, but if the battery's flat on their phone then they're lost. You know what I mean. Like you know it's all context right. Yeah, you get good at the thing that you practice, right. And so I think that problem solving in the jiu-jitsu context has got to go back to like how do I optimize for learning? And often being competitive doesn't optimize for learning, because you just do what works, yeah, yeah, so there's less creativeness there.

Speaker 1: 11:30

But is that not like, say to this point or maybe this is your point, but I'm thinking like that's is that almost not like a separate thing from, say, because this repetition thing, where it's like doing it once and not being able to like that's not enough for you to be able to actually know that thing, that is almost um separate of what's your learning process, where it's like, well, if you're not even being exposed to the material for enough time, let that be the first thing. Oh, no, definitely. I guess what I'm trying to outline here I'm with you in the sense that I actually believe you should do a fuck ton of reps of one thing. Now some people might say it's outdated, that's not ecological, whatever, I don't care. If we look at any pursuit, repetition is absolutely at the base of skill, whether it's dancing, gymnastics, anything, golf, you name it right.

Speaker 1: 12:19

What I'm trying to talk about here is, like, how do you unblock your learning so maybe winning becomes a block to learning and just learn? And so I know for me, I've had times where I'm just like I just don't want to fucking lose, I just want to win. And that means that the jujitsu didn't happen, like I just ended up in a stalemate and you didn't do your thing. I didn't make a mistake, but my mistake was I probably didn't do any jujitsu, it was just like a just grim death, you know, yeah. And so, in terms of trying to understand, are you learning jujitsu? Sometimes the lesson is fuck, I keep getting my back taken. And then you mention that to your coach and your coach is like let me show you the defense, but if you didn't make the mistake of getting your back taken, then you couldn't then go to that learning, if that makes sense. Not that you let the person just do what they want, but yeah, that's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I would absolutely agree. And so, talking about skill repetition, I think it's really important for a person to come in with a game plan, because sometimes your coach may show a new thing every Monday. Maybe they don't right. You still need to take control of this. A little bit Like this came up recently in a discussion between Annie Duke and another very smart business person and they said she was saying being wrong isn't a problem as long as you understand why.

Speaker 1: 13:39

So she's like if you don't explicitly state my goal is to take the back, you can't test whether you're wrong or right. Yeah, like if you just roll, if you don't call which hole you're going to put the ball in. Yeah, putting a ball in the hole in a hole doesn't necessarily equal anything. That's right. So she was saying in order for you to test your assumption, you actually have to state your assumption works fine when you're playing joey's pub tournament, but any hole counts, but counts. But I think that's a different game. When we're doing this and this is something actually Lockie tried to do it one time.

Speaker 1: 14:13

I've talked about this before, lockie Giles we had all these folders and people are sweaty as fuck. Right, it's comp class and you had to write down your intention for that role. It was like specific training. So the person coming into the drill got to choose what was happening, right, and then the other person had to just do the defense or attack. And you had to then come off the mat and write yes or no. Was I successful? Yeah, repeat, repeat. But people are getting sweaty, some people are going out to line. People couldn't write it down, it just became a bit of a mess.

Speaker 1: 14:45

The idea was great, but it's hard to test these things. Yeah, but if I look at the people who are the best, they have a very good discipline in being able to just implement what they're trying to do and they stick to it, whether it's a knee-cut pass or it's a particular takedown, and they just, they're very determined about just doing the same thing. Even though it's a live drill or it's inspiring, they are so determined to get that one move and to try it against different bodies and all of that. And I look at that and I go, wow, it takes a lot of attention. You've got to really fucking pay attention to test if it works or not. And so, going back to that idea of practicing a skill and and really do you understand it, you've got to have the application.

Speaker 1: 15:32

And so that's where I would make the argument for this idea of learning that if, if you can't rely on your coach to deliver the same thing, it would be important for you to pick a thing that you're working on, have your own personal project, like you choosing the back, yeah, and as a result, you know your students have benefited from. Yeah, I simplified it for myself, yeah, and yeah, I got way more for my training by taking that approach. Yeah, and it wouldn't even have to be one position you might just focus on escaping. You might make that your thing. You're like right, I'm going to learn how to get out of all submissions so I can't get submitted, pick a corner and then come to understand it. And yeah, the reason why I brought this up is because if you ask somebody, what are you learning or what are you working on in jiu-jitsu right now, if they can't actually pick something, then I believe it's going to take them much longer to come to a good understanding of a given thing in jujitsu.

Speaker 1: 16:27

You know our last point on that um, it was something I've been doing in my class. Advantage is um, we will do the warm-up and then I'll be like all right, who who was here last week? And you know, people raise their hand. I'm like, cool, um, partner up with someone that wasn't here and just go through what we went over last week, interesting. And you see, and everyone's like, oh fuck, like the guys that the people that are just there tonight are like there's no stress, but anyone that was put out there like, oh fuck, what did we go over? And, um, but it's great. I'm like you guys got three minutes, don't ask me any questions, you figure it out and you feel like, oh, okay, so and you they start to talk to you know. So we were working on, had the underhook and, and it's actually really cool.

Speaker 1: 17:07

I would love to do that for like 15 minutes because I think there's so much going on there with the recall thing, whereas if I just didn't do that and we're like, all right, here's tonight's technique. There's no part of the process that's asking them to recall what we went over. Anyway, I quite like it. Yeah, that's huge, and I think there is a huge value in not having all the answers for your students. Yeah, like letting them try to put it together and recall and even make mistakes, because then it just creates more neural networks and it enables them to better understand it. So there it is, folks. What are you learning? Are you learning?