Bulletproof For BJJ Podcast
Discussions on improving your BJJ, navigating mat-politics and all aspects of the jiu jitsu lifestyle. Multiple weekly episodes for grapplers of any level. Hosted by JT and Joey - Australian jiu jitsu black belts, strength coaches, and creators of Bulletproof For BJJ App. Based out of Sydney, Australia
Bulletproof For BJJ Podcast
Are Turkish Get Ups Bad For BJJ?!
Episode 313: Could the Turkish get-up be the unsung hero of your jiu-jitsu strength training? That's the topic we're dissecting after Dr. Mike Israetel, a respected bodybuilding expert and a seasoned BJJ brown belt himself, tossed the gauntlet down by dismissing the exercise as a mere "circus act." But we're not so quick to let this challenge slide by uncontested. With our combined quarter-century of experience in the thick of combat sports fitness, we're laying out the case for the Turkish get-up's comprehensive benefits. From building shoulder stability to enhancing your ability to wriggle out of a tight side control, we're unpacking the potential this multifaceted exercise has for upping your grappling game.
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Speaker 2:Essentially, at this point, the fight is over.
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Speaker 2:I'm ready. So every week we put out multiple episodes to help you on your jujitsu journey. Now it's a privilege for us to be in this position, but we want to ask one thing from you, and this is a very small gesture on your part, but it means the world to us. Simply hit the follow or subscribe button on whichever platform you enjoy this podcast on. It means the world to us. Thank you, lead in All right. So we got a question from one of our users in regards to a recent post that went out. Mike Isretel, who's a famous exercise scientist, I believe Dr Mike, yeah, dr Mike. Renaissance periodization Great YouTube channel Content has become a little bit more entertainment-based in recent times, but the guy knows how to build muscle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, knows how to build muscle. He's also a brown belt in jiu-jitsu. Now he did an interview, I think, with Eugene Teo, who's a bodybuilding coach or enthusiast big YouTuber here in Australia I think he's in Melbourne and basically this clip that went out on YouTube was where Mike is saying that the Turkish get-up is not an effective strength training exercise for BJJ what? And in that he says that it's essentially so. Here's the deal. He makes a claim about it and a friend of ours said hey, I want to know what you guys think. What's the deal with conflicting advice or opinions regarding strength training for jujitsu?
Speaker 2:Dr Mike is a pretty renowned figure in the science-based bodybuilding community, but the goal there isn't the same as jujitsu. So is this just clout for clicks or am I missing something, right? So that's the framing of this conversation. Let me just make the point that Mike's sort of point there is that the Turkish get up is kind of just a circus act and that it doesn't actually strengthen anything that's that important beyond shoulder stability. And he also makes the point there that the Turkish get-up is used because all it is is practicing your stand-up in base Right. So that's the foundation. Let's just pick that apart a little bit Now.
Speaker 1:He also says in the clip that if you're like 90, like, unless you're 90 years old you should be able to return to base. Right, we should be able to stand up. We should be able to stand up in base. I'm actually going to say that possibly our man, dr Mike Israel, would struggle with this movement. Now, more recently, dr Mike Israel has done an interview with Chris Williams and he talks about his top 10 exercises of all time. It's really interesting because he talks about not being able to do back squats very well because his arms are too big. He doesn't say, oh, I lack shoulder mobility. He says, oh, my arms are too big to do that now. Okay, cool, all right, no worries, mate, now we can look at this in a fairly objective way, or I could really tear the lid off this and go pretty hard. We'll see where it goes. I'll say my objective bit, I'll let Joe do his objective bit and if I feel unsettled enough, I'll get a little bit uncorked.
Speaker 1:But this is what I'd say you find me someone who has a really strong Turkish getup and show me where they're weak. A person who has a very heavy Turkish getup is a strong person because there's so many mechanical requirements to be good at it. It's not just shoulder stability. And the interesting thing in the video is when Dr Mike says oh, you know, it's just good for shoulder stability when you lift your arm up above your head and he's like the dude can barely lift his arm up above his head. So I think it's an interesting thing for me. So if we just do this on like a deductive reasoning bit, if somebody's very strong at the Turkish getup, I would suggest that they can be strong at other things. It gives them, it demonstrates, a certain amount of movement capacity. But just because someone has a really strong back squat doesn't mean they'll have a strong Turkish getup. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So what the Turkish getup tells me is not only about their shoulder stability but their hip mobility and a lot of other ways that they can organize their body. It is practical to jujitsu because if you've ever been stuck under side control and you have someone trying to cross face you and you're trying to get out of there, if you have strong mechanics in that position to come up off your back against resistance, it's much easier to come up off the ground. That's where I would argue it's helpful. But it's also helpful for other stuff mr mr joe, your thoughts yeah.
Speaker 2:So my first, my first sort of observation is that and relevant to the, to the question of the of our friend, was that there's always going to be conflicting advice. And this is the beauty of this world strength, flexibility, performance is that different people are coming at it from different contexts, different perspectives, and so that's going to give you advice that is sometimes conflicting, right? We openly say that we think Turkish get-up is probably the best single exercise you could do for jiu-jitsu. If you had to pick one. Now, I could also argue for why it's not.
Speaker 2:I could give you an argument for why the barbell deadlift or the kettlebell swing or the fucking pull-up could be better, and I reckon I could make a pretty strong argument. Sure, but at the end of the day, you kind of got to go with something and go all right, yeah, like that's good, right. So that's the first sort of point I want to make. Now here's my kind of issue with with that is that what mike's saying about that, the turkish get up is all your training is the ability to stand up in base.
Speaker 2:This is a misconception and this, like this, is a misunderstanding in my view, and I actually think mike would know better than this yeah but it is not the case that in the gym, the exercises you're using should exactly replicate the movements that you're doing in your sport, right, right, so sometimes that's of benefit. Right, we can load up a particular position that we do in our sport, but, moreover, what we're trying to train is the specific qualities that are going to transfer, and we use exercises to train those qualities. So in that way, there's a bunch of benefits in the get-up which JT touched on the way to organize your body, the way to create a strong structure, understanding this contralateral base between one hand and the opposite foot, the hip mobility that's required, the shoulder stability while the hips are mobilizing. Like it's very hard to scientifically measure building hip mobility while also stabilizing at the shoulder.
Speaker 2:Body builders and I would say, conventional strength coaches, probably don't think about that, because they do shoulder exercises and then on another day they do hip exercises. But doing those two things at the same time presents a different challenge. Call it coordinative, call it movement-based, whatever you want, but there's something going on here that's very important. So in that way, I think that he's really kind of undersold. I think that he's presented it from a really weak place. I've got no problem with him saying look, I don't think it's the best, I think these other exercises are better.
Speaker 1:I think that, sure, there's a valid discussion to be had there but I think the whole premise that he's kind of brought to it is a bit clickable. Well, the the premise was I hate this exercise and straight away that gets people maybe people like myself a little bit triggered. You go, maybe I like this move, maybe I don't like you hating on it, but really like you know what. Dr mike seems like a smart enough guy, I guess, to form his opinion. That's cool.
Speaker 1:This is why I'd say, my friends, don't take my word for it, don't take Joey's word for it. Find out for yourself, start doing some get-ups and realize how much it does challenge you and then recognize, when you start to get stronger at it, how much stronger you are overall because it does challenge so many different facets of your body and it how much stronger you are overall because it does challenge so many different facets of your body. And, like I said, if you find me someone who has an exceptionally strong Turkish get up, I would say they have greater capacity to be strong through other movements. It doesn't mean they definitely are, but having a huge, massive, strong back squat doesn't mean you'll have a strong get up right.
Speaker 1:So my thing for you, my friends, friends, is prove me wrong, prove me right. Go and spend some time doing some get ups, find out what that does for your shoulders and your core and your hips, and then feel how much better you are on the mats and doing these other things. So don't, don't take it from us. Like you know, you gotta, you gotta play with it yourself and you can find out, and you can find out whether or not it does work for you. I'm gonna say, as someone who's spent 25 years working on this, that it will work for you, but that's just me.
Speaker 2:It is that is fam um to the anonymous caller with the question. Thanks, Appreciate it. Hope that helps simplify some things for you guys. Probably not.
