Bulletproof For BJJ Podcast
This is the official podcast of the Bulletproof For BJJ movement. Hosted by JT & Joey. Each episode the founders break down problems that Jiu-jitsu people experience, giving guidance and tips to improve your training for BJJ. With the goal of helping every body on the Brazilian jiu-jitsu path reduce their chance of injury, improve their strength and mobility to become more resilient.
Bulletproof For BJJ Podcast
When You have a Gym Crush
Do you have a BJJ Gym Crush? Have you ever dated a team mate? There are some horror stories of relationships gone wrong in jiujitsu gym culture but then there are some success stories but they are usually in the minority. What are the ethical and social repercussions for taking that step and can that spoil your first love- JiuJitsu. JT & Joey get candid about the problems a gym romance can face and possible key points to consider before moving too fast. It is a fine line to tread but it can result in great relationships and great BJJ couples. To keep the gym vibes good this discussion could help you make the right call. Have you ever had a gym crush? Did it workout? Let us know in the comments.
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A good martial artist does not become tense but ready. Essentially, at this point the fight is over, so you pretty much flow with the goal. Who is worthy to be trusted with the secret to limitless power?
Speaker 2:I'm ready.
Speaker 1:Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another Bulletproof for BJJ podcast. When you have a BJJ gym crush, oh my goodness, you've gone to Jiu-Jitsu. You found this thing you love, and now, oh, there's someone at J jujitsu. You found this thing you love, and now, oh, there's someone at jujitsu. You kind of like them.
Speaker 2:It's another thing you love.
Speaker 1:It's a bit awkward. You see them all the time. They look real nice in their gi, they seem so cool. But it's shaky ground to tread on because you might spoil the thing you love, which is jujitsu, the first love by messing up the social dynamic by trying to date a teammate. This is problematic territory and I want to bring it up. We've never actually spoken about it, but we all know it exists. We've all been there. We've witnessed the horror stories of coaches dating students, people dating teammates blowing, then someone's gonna leave the gym. There's so many terrible things that can occur. But there's also some success stories out there, and so I wanted to kind of talk around the ethics of this. It's problematic, joe, have you, have you seen stuff like this?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, yeah, seen it, seen it plenty. I think, um, what kind? Yeah, often what comes to mind is where it's failed, right, yeah, and you're like, oh yeah, that was bad, someone had to leave the gym, you know. Or or say the more extreme cases where you see, um, you know, abuse right unfolding like a student, like, just to put it out there, we do see it a lot in jiu-jitsu that there is.
Speaker 2:It probably has a disproportionately high amount of older male like leaders in the community sort of taking advantage or hooking up with younger students, like we see direct abuse, like pedophilia, but we do also see borderline, like unethical yeah, and so I don't think we don't want to go into that.
Speaker 1:That's not what we're, no this is not what we're we're talking about. Yeah, we're talking about more around. You're new to jujitsu adults, you're making some friends, yeah, and then you hang out a bit and then you're like, oh, it's kind kind of like that person, I'd like to hang out with them outside of jujitsu and just get to know them. But it can make things more awkward. And so I wanted to get into this, because I've had someone ask me a question, saying there's this girl. I really like her and I've done jujitsu for a couple of years and I'm kind of thinking about asking her out and I said whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait, because what you have to consider and this actually comes more from a professional point of view, working in gyms my whole life is if it doesn't work out, this may not forfeit, but really tarnish your experience of jujitsu. That's what you're betting. It's not just oh, okay, we're not cool now if it doesn't work out, because that's the bet, yeah, it might work out, you might be the love of your life, you might get married, and then you have a jujitsu family, happy days. But it is not necessarily the case. And if it does go awry, do you then fuck up your jiu-jitsu community? That's what we're worried about, and I think that having a method of approaching it. Now we're not the dating specialist, so this isn't love advice you know, this is kind of up to you but the things you need to consider before you take that step. That's. That's what I would like to discuss Now. Have you seen any situations where people have maybe managed it from a gym perspective more so than BJJ, Joe, have you seen anything like that where two separate individuals have been able to come together successfully and blossom as a relationship within the gym environment?
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Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yeah, I've seen that plenty Like here in my gym we've had three, two long-term couples hook up. One went on to get married and have a child and then the other one's Amazing, maybe they got engaged recently, but yeah right, like different members of the gym start hanging out and then bam the thing's, you know whatever, it's great, it's a great thing. I actually can't speak to ever seeing it go badly. Okay, we've definitely had moments of creepiness, like at Christmas parties and shit, where certain people have too many drink, too intoxicated, and just tried it on with anyone that they could and you know like that, and that usually kind of ends badly. But that person like reads, you know they pick it up like I think I fucked it up here and they you know, they come back yeah, um, but you know, yeah, like largely like a really good experience with it, right?
Speaker 2:um, my relationship, my partner, we met through not through the gym directly, but through me coaching, right, and we met there, both consenting adults of course, and then we sort of started to spend more time together.
Speaker 2:She would come to my classes right yeah, my jiu-jitsu classes specifically, and that was that was where, that was the basis of our, the beginning of our relationship, oh wow so you know and so like as a gym owner and as someone that's like trying to be aware of, like you know, not fucking up like a good thing, right, not not making it awkward for the other people in the class or awkward for the community yeah, there's a lot of considerations there, right, where you're like okay, like there's this. There's a lot more riding on this, especially if you're a coach compared to a student compared to just students dating per se.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so it's not just like if we compare, because it's all potential, right. So if you compare that potential, I'm a business owner, the business owner, and I'm a coach, and then I'm sort of like fostering this growing relationship with a student. Sure, Versus, I'm a single guy flicking through Tinder. Sure, right, there's one of them is fucking, there's a lot riding on it. The other one doesn't mean shit, Very insignificant, yeah, right, and so it's like I think in that way, then you have to really be sure that, like, if you're going to pursue it, you have to be sure that you're giving it that weight.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're giving it the proper respect it deserves for what is at risk Exactly, which is the first love.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so don't like, yeah, definitely don't fuck around, like don't have a fling in that scenario. If you want to have a fling like go to Tinder or you know, whatever They'll go meet someone at a bar.
Speaker 1:Yeah, don't.
Speaker 2:Yeah and like so we've had it in the gym right, where there's been like we've had people over the years many times be like like girls were like oh you know, you'll get in a conversation with girls in the gym. You get in a conversation with girls in the gym like you got a fellow like what's going on? Like no, like fucking trying to meet someone, and I'll be like what about so-and-so like those dudes in the class and they've said they said yeah, but they won't like, they never like approach, and then I'll speak to the dudes. I'll be like bro, you know, so-and-so single and like maybe interested, and he'll be joey the matchmaker always because you know, because you're like Joey's the orchestrator.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Joey and the love barbell, but the guys-.
Speaker 2:But the guys have said to me, the guys have said, bro, I don't want to bring any fucking drama to the community. It's too tight here, yeah, and you're like, holy shit, they're actually being so respectful of the thing that they're like not here, yes, and so. Like great whatever.
Speaker 1:They're like not here, yes, and so like great, whatever, but um, but yeah, I think, given it the respect, right, yeah, and also some of you might have come across a similar situation at work. So different workplaces will have policies about. You can't date workmates depending on the environment, and if you do, it's got to be really fucking behind closed doors.
Speaker 2:No, you know public displays do they actually have policies around that? Some workplaces- do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there was always a rule at my gym which is don't screw the crew, you can't. Trainers can't have relationships and trainers cannot date clients. That is the rule. You break that rule, you're fucking out, and so that was very clear cut. I might have breached that rule. Yeah, I mean, I totally secretly dated another trainer.
Speaker 2:What was his name?
Speaker 1:Handsome gentleman, amazing mustache. His name was Nicholas. Oh yeah, brazilian, six foot three slender. Couldn't stop talking about himself in the third person, but I didn't mind. I was like say your name more, nicholas.
Speaker 1:I love it I was very mature. He said I was mature. So here's the thing His broken English was incredible. I told him His handsomeness made up for it.
Speaker 1:Here's the thing we kept that very behind closed doors, myself and this other person, just because one we wanted to do our work. We're at work and we also just didn't want it to complicate us dating each other outside of that, and it just meant that we had to be. So. It actually made us much more organized about our relationship because we couldn't just rock up together, be like what are you guys doing here together at 5 30 in the morning, did you pick? Like that's, that's questionable, you know? And so it actually at the end of the day, like it wasn't a long-term thing, but it actually made us behave more in a more respectful way about the relationship, because we couldn't just be lazy with it and we couldn't just be really open with it.
Speaker 1:And now that might be really for some people kind of toxic or crippling for a relationship to not be able to express yourself. But in that way, because I valued my professionalism in the gym as a trainer and so did she. We just kept it that way Gave you boundaries, gave us boundaries, and that was actually pretty good. But does your gym have some rules around this? Because maybe you're a blue belt, you've kind of got another blue belt friend and you're becoming more than friends. You get your purple belt and then the coach is like hey, we want you to instruct. Oh, I did. Ah, okay, yeah, I want to. I want to keep the coach happy, but I don't want to lose my relationship. So now I'm an instructor dating a student, but I didn't sign up for this, you know right, yeah, so it can.
Speaker 1:The jiu-jitsu thing can evolve and this can put pressure on a relationship that you're building outside of the mats.
Speaker 2:I question can, like you know, policies are great and stuff, but can you actually control consenting adults when they're interested in each other?
Speaker 2:you can kick people out I've seen gyms kick people out for misbehavior around that that you can do, but I don't think you can actually stop, like, if two people are interested in each other, nothing's going to get in the way of that, right? So I'm so and in that way. So I'm thinking like I don't know, I'm just thinking as a gym owner, like if, if you know, if there was something, if there were coaches and, and you know, we had a policy of like, don't fuck around, don't bring drama, don't you know, don't mistreat, yeah, you know, if you want to be a fuck boy, like, do that outside of here, yeah. But if I had two coaches who were like, yeah, this is a thing, we're like really interested in each other, we can't. We love each other, like great, like I don't know, I just I I wouldn't feel like, well, now I've got to kick you out because that's against company policy. No, fair enough man.
Speaker 1:But yeah, it's love oh god, joe, don't bring that into it. Sure, sure it sure it is. Love is love. And I am not saying we're not saying this in a prescriptive way, right, like what we're talking about here is maybe there's better ways to go about it and there's worse ways to go about it, right, but I am aware of gyms that do have certain policies and I know of two specific occasions where people have been booted. So, you can't do that here.
Speaker 2:That's bad for our business, and were they doing it in a kind of whatever, like an above board, respectful manner, or was it like it was?
Speaker 1:secretive. One of them was secretive but it was an affair, so there's that that's problematic if you're married or partnered up. Yeah, because that doesn't look good if you know?
Speaker 2:No, that's bad for everyone.
Speaker 1:That's very you know, and that's the thing I've seen that fucking destroy some gyms. Yeah, right, and that's what I'm saying. Right, this is where we've got to cut the line between. This is a business you know business and a service, and this is a community with lots of mixed relationships. Right At the end of the day, the ethics of the behavior and the ethics of the coaches will reflect on the business, and that could kill the business, and that's where it can really come in.
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Speaker 1:Oh yeah, so the situation I had had seen, which was kind of interesting, uh, I'm not going to name people, but there was a. They had a relationship before jujitsu. They came into the gym. Friendship, no, no, they were kind of dating. Yeah, this came up like they kind of came up in the in, in the, in the ranks, both high level competitors like very well respected in the gym, and then, um, the guy happened to just start kind of randomly dating one of the other people in the gym. Oh, at the same time it wasn't even like secret sounds like he made a poor decision.
Speaker 1:It was a very bad decision. He chose poorly and then it was very tough because, uh, the lady who was kind of in this situation, she was like what do I do about this? I don't feel like this is the relationships deteriorating here, but I love this gym and I want to be here and kind of went to the coach and was like the gym owner and coach was like, oh, like, what do we do here? And the coach was like, oh, I want to stay out of this, I don't want to. I can't tell you what to. Like you know what I mean. Like you got to do what you feels right for you, yeah, and I I don't know, like I don't know what the right decision was, but at the end of the day, uh, she ended up leaving and joining another gym and that was really a loss for that gym Makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was just kind of it was terrible, right, and what ended up happening is those two people also left the gym because there was so much moral judgment in the gym around it that you guys fucked this up. You also alienated one of our best competitors. Now they're out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like, you guys fucked up the vibe yeah, I think it's like very, it's very like reasonable to expect that people who are in other relationships married and whatnot are sometimes going to get interested in somebody else. Right, that's like it fucking happens, and so, in that regard, it's like all right, the, the, the choice of okay, I'm gonna have an affair versus okay, I need to really make sure this is what I want to do. I'm going to end this relationship I'm going to start this one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like, like, yeah, because whatever, like just on our human values. You cop so much judgment right in the affair thing um, and that fucking happened all the time shit, but it's like, yeah, you don't like it's bad enough doing that thing secretly in your own life, let alone doing it within your jiu-jitsu community, where people are privy to it. You're gonna get judged. It's it's not good yeah, it's terrible.
Speaker 1:and look, I, I don't want to. I don't want to linger on the negative right, because I do believe this can be done in a positive way. And I've seen it where someone had a gym and they were probably they'd started a gym early. They were like purple belt or whatever. It took them ages to get their black belt, but they were running this kind of gym, small gym out in the suburbs, and they met someone else at a different gym and they kind of started liking each other and doing the thing and they build a relationship and that's cool different gyms and then eventually she came across and then I'm getting married and they got fucking four kids and it's a jiu-jitsu family and it's happy as fuck and you know, all the kids do jiu-jitsu and it's just known as no one got burned family club.
Speaker 1:No, it was.
Speaker 1:They did it right and community was damaged in this process oh, I think that other gym was jealous that he kind of right, stole her across, but but whatever, it was early, I think it's not like it was another black belt head instructor, it was just like but that was just an example of somebody who actually built their jiu-jitsu community off their relationship. They were known as a great family gym, their kids, you know. It was a cool thing and I'm like man, that's jiu-jitsu bringing people together and that was kind of. They ran it in a really nice way and to this day run a great gym.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I mean, how you go about. It is really everything, isn't it yeah?
Speaker 1:definitely, and I think this is a huge challenge because we all crave the connection right, and jiu-jitsu might be the only way we socialize. So it's like ah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know what I think like I can look at a couple of scenarios where like, say, you know, say, when someone's relationship is like, when you're in a shit relationship and you're coming towards the end of it, things are often like it's not all going to end in a nice, clean way. No, so it's not like, and that like it's not always realistic rather to expect.
Speaker 1:But who's getting the coffee machine? Joe End that.
Speaker 2:And then who?
Speaker 1:the fuck is getting the fucking Mazda 321.
Speaker 2:But then jump to the next one. Right, it's like sometimes there there's fucking blurred lines, right, and that what I think, where I think people really drop the ball with this shit. I actually know of a of another gym, um, where they just had this scenario recently where the the owner of the gym got involved with the owner of the gym, is married and got involved with one of the the other coaches, I think, or students there, and it's just brought a whole bunch of fucking drama to the place. Right, yes, it's the lack of communications around that. So I think it's fair. Fuck-ups happen, poor decisions sometimes get made, people judge from the outside and maybe see something. Maybe it didn't play out like that, but that's how it was perceived publicly.
Speaker 1:We're all human.
Speaker 2:We make mistakes, but I honestly think for a leader of a community to be like hey guys, I want to have a chat to you after training. I just want to fucking let you know, like, how things played out, like to share with you know, like, if you're the gym owner, to be like look, this has happened, I've done this thing. I wish I had done this differently, but you know, whatever, like I think that's really powerful, just communicating with your people yeah so they can be like oh fuck, so-and-so's a human and whatever.
Speaker 2:They could have managed that better, but they were really up front about it and their heart was in the right place. Yeah, you know, I'm like I think more of that would be cool. But often with this relationship stuff, people tend to just like let's just brush over and pretend it didn't happen right, yeah, you know, and then it's like no, there's people who are it's to be students who are harboring kind of vibes over that for a long time and that's going to affect the community.
Speaker 1:It hurts relationships, right, like I don't know about you guys, but at least in my family I have very good relationships in my family. I love my parents, I love my sisters and my extended family, and everyone is pretty open and we discuss stuff with each other, right. So it's one of those things that I think sometimes we're not aware of it, but people are maybe more invested or feel more connected to us than we realize that jujitsu and that we may have created an extended family and maybe in your family you're a little bit more private, but then suddenly you've got someone weighing in being like bro, why did you do that? And you're like oh, hang on uncle george.
Speaker 1:I didn't know. You fucking tell me how to run my life, but uncle george might then also go speak to management, be like, oh, what's going on? This guy's fucking around. You know what I mean. Like this, there's this thing that we don't.
Speaker 1:We love the benefits of the jiu-jitsu community, but we often miss the responsibilities that come with being a good member of the community, and it is important to remember that your decisions are going to affect these other people. Even though you might feel it's not their business, people will make it their business. So I think this is at least my take on it. If you do want to take that step to ask your gym crush out or maybe spend a bit more time with them, just consider how you approach it and then definitely communicating it, whether it be with the coach or with other people. How you want to let people know it's a thing is quite important. There it is folks, gym crushes. You've got to sort it out, you've got to find a way to do it responsibly and if you like this kind of information, you want to share it with more people like follow, subscribe and give us a five-star rating. We appreciate y'all you.
