Bulletproof For BJJ Podcast
Discussions on improving your BJJ, navigating mat-politics and all aspects of the jiu jitsu lifestyle. Multiple weekly episodes for grapplers of any level. Hosted by JT and Joey - Australian jiu jitsu black belts, strength coaches, and creators of Bulletproof For BJJ App. Based out of Sydney, Australia
Bulletproof For BJJ Podcast
Back Pain From Deadlifts? Try These Instead
Are deadlifts wreaking havoc on your back? In our latest episode, we address the misconceptions surrounding this staple exercise and provide tailored solutions to alleviate discomfort while maximizing your strength gains. Listen here for some insight on how you can make your way back to deadlifting and being strong as f*** on the mats.
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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another Bulletproof for BJJ podcast. Does your back kill you when you do deadlifts? We have a solution. Today we unpack exactly what you need to return to strength. First thing, we share with you our two key techniques to unlock your hips and lower back so you can ease off the pain. Number two we also describe the two exercises we both love both Joey and I, we agree on this hard to imagine which is going to get you back to gradually loading your hips and back. And then, number three, the moves that are not practiced widely, which are going to help you restore strength and get back to deadlifting.
Speaker 1:Let's get into the episode Also, while you're there. It's a small thing, but it's a big thing to us. We would love it if you would like follow and subscribe. It is huge in terms of helping us share this with other good people like yourself. We appreciate it Better. Listen very carefully. A good martial artist does not become tense, but ready. Essentially, at this point, the fight is over, so you pretty much flow with the goal. Who is worthy to be trusted with the secret to limitless power? I'm ready.
Speaker 1:Are deadlifts hurting your back or is your back sore for a different reason we're going to talk about substitutions for the deadlift, so you can make your way back to the holy land of strength. There was a request, joey, one of the people in our community said every time I get to a certain weight on deadlift, my lower back blows up Totally fine when it's lighter and then stuck, and he's like, ah, deadlift's bad, is it my back? What's the deal? I don't know what to do. So what we're going to do today is talk you through how you can go from just kind of starting at a lower level and building yourself back up and then getting back to the Holy Land. Yeah, cause sort of the obvious thing is like dead leaves aren't bad. No, but they can be problematic for the lower back. Yeah, depending what's going on. Yeah, and I've had. I deal with a little bit of that myself when I get towards the upper end, and it can be that way especially.
Speaker 1:Look the first thing. Let's just put it out there If you haven't had your back checked like, if you haven't had a scan or an assessment, you might have some bulging discs, you might have some joint degeneration. You need to actually find out if there's some problems there, which you know is actually something that can be, uh, fixed or worked on before you start loading yourself up. So please do that first. Let's just put that out there. See a physio first.
Speaker 1:I would add to that yeah, like if you, if you're, if you're experiencing like ongoing kind of pain and discomfort in there, but but I would say if you, if it's just like every now and again, oh, low back gets a bit sore, like I, wouldn't necessarily only because I've never had a back scan, but I think it's quite involved, right, uh, well, I mean, I've had an mri. I actually had an mri on my hip right, so I had a hip problem. Um, anyway, that was fine, but they did reveal that I had bulged two discs previously, right, which I did not know. I just didn't. Oh, there you go. They say that, don't they? That if you, if you look at it with a magnifying glass, you're going to find plenty of shit wrong. There'll be plenty of problems, and we're not saying this because we want to stop you from lifting, but what we want to do today is give you a method of getting yourself back to a degree of strength with your lower back. So the way we're going to do it actually is look at your kind of easy, medium and harder options for gradually building yourself up. And what's interesting to me is this has kind of come through speaking with other people and I guess I don't feel it as much because hammies are going okay, mahamis. Mahamis is my first port of call.
Speaker 1:If you're struggling with a deadlift and you're looking for an easy-to-do mobility exercise which will get your hammies, glutes and lower back working, the right way for a hinge is the stride stance good morning. Now. Actually, joe introduced me to this when we first started with the Bulletproof BJJ program. It's not something I had done, I invented it. By the way, it should be called the Joe stance. The Joe stance good morning. There you go, internet. You know now, I didn't invent it, but it's amazing what it does for you.
Speaker 1:It actually kind of points out if you're rounding your back or if you keep it quite strict. You feel your hammies like a lot. It's a brutal and simple hamstring stretch and it's very easy to know if you're doing it correctly or not. If you start flexing in the spine, you see it straight away. And so what had happened is there's some people doing our program who are doing stride stance good mornings as part of their warm-up for mobility, but they're like oh man, I feel my hamstrings a lot like I get they get a bit of doms from it as well, and this is a real indicator that your hamstrings are very deconditioned, they're not stretching enough and they're also probably pretty fucking weak. Yeah, and this can also be a cause of oftentimes, if people haven't cultivated strong hamstrings, they will use their lower back muscles too much and this can result in problems.
Speaker 1:But, um, but yeah, I love the stride stance, good morning. Yeah, I think it's a beauty, the, the magic of it, just like for anyone that's like oh yeah, I've done those, uh, but what's the deal? It's the, the setup. Because you have the legs, because you've got the stride stance, it's kind of a foot apart a little bit more, yeah, and you're basically like spotting yourself through a single leg, good morning. And so that means that the majority of your body weight's on that single hamstring, yeah, and so it's fucking intense and that's why you're like this simple body weight exercise, you walk away feeling doms for a few days, yeah, and I think this is just a good place to start in terms of building range too, if your hammies are a bit tight, if you're a tight hamstring human, but then also putting the hands behind the head.
Speaker 1:This is something which can really get the neck and the upper back and those muscles working. Like it sounds silly, right, like cause you can. You can do this movement just hands across your chest or just reaching down trying to keep your back straight. But if you want to actually add some resistance, linking your fingers behind your head in this kind of way, it actually really engages the upper back as well as the lower back and the hammies. Yeah, I like it. Um, I I also think like when you, yeah, when you're at that point of like.
Speaker 1:So we're talking like early stage right, like, yeah, back's a bit flared up. I'm not going to be doing deadlifts today. What am I fucking with? What can I do to get the hips moving? Yeah, I think like a really nice coupling with working the hamstrings is to is to stretch the glutes. Yes, um, and I would use like a, like an active pigeon or a box pigeon for that, definitely.
Speaker 1:I just feel like like we, we talk about, we talk about areas of the body and we talk about the lower back like it's an island. That's right, and it's like your lower back is like it's your glutes, it's your hips, and your hips encompass your hamstrings, oblique, Amongst many other things. Yeah, it's your spinal erectors, hip flexors yeah, it all comes together in this one, yeah. And so when you got shit going on there, it's like oh, it can be lower back where you feel it, and so like lower back, and you instantly think of, like your spine, yeah, and you're like, fuck, there's something with the spine.
Speaker 1:But what I like about this approach is you work the hammies a bit and then work the glutes and then often you're like, oh shit, like it feels way better, it's freed up and that and it's just important to remember like, yeah, it's just muscles, it's just structures and tissues, it's not, you don't have a back problem. No, you know, your spine's probably great, yes, and and if this does give you relief, then you're like, okay, that's more than likely all it was. Yeah, it unpacks it, right. So you could say that, oh, hang on, my back problem actually maybe it's a hamstring issue, or oh, my God, I didn't realize how tight my glutes were and for many of my clients that I've found over the years that if they had lower back pain related to any kind of lift, if we open the hips up, this like the glute, specifically glute max, because it inserts across the top of your pelvis there into the lower back area that causes pain If that's tight, loosen that bad boy up and you get a lot of freedom. So I think this is like just a good place to start to settle the back down and, yeah, just get a feel, it's a bit of a detective, a little bit of detective work here for you. So if you're trying to work out fuck, what's my problem here, this can reveal things for you.
Speaker 1:Now, once you're kind of working on the mobility a bit, then we want to go okay, how can we bring in a little bit of load, but in a very controlled way? Uh, I'm going to say I invented it, but actually I just stole it from my Russian coach, ifim. He used to get me to do it with a plate and then, when a plate wasn't heavy enough, a kettlebell. That is the cradle. Good morning.
Speaker 1:I fricking love this because it is so simple to load. You don't. It doesn't require anything special and it allows you to hinge in the hips and you only go as far as you've got range to do. It's different to a J curl. It's massively different to a J curl, but essentially you can't overdo the range of motion because you'll only go as low with the weight across your chest as your lower back and your hammies can handle Right, and then coming back up, staying in that neutral spine position. The neutral spine position, yeah, like more or less you want. I mean obviously with when you have. When you're using a plate, it's easier to keep your upper back straight. When you've got the kettlebell, you're a little bit rounded in the upper back, but the lower back is more or less straight. But it's just loading up the hinge in a in a very different way. You're loading at the top, which means you're actually stronger when you go down Right, whereas, like with a deadlift, you're loading at the bottom of the range of motion. Yeah, so that way it's pretty safe. If you've got an iffy lower back, you can kind of just gradually build range into it. Yeah, that's why I like the cradle.
Speaker 1:Good morning, I enjoyed doing that one. You taught me to do it with the sandbag as well. Oh, with sandbags, which I really like. Yeah, it's just a great shape and texture to squeeze, grip Puts your torso in a good position and it's actually a bit of abs. The bracing in the front is great too.
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Speaker 1:And the other one and it's funny. It's funny because I totally forgot, because you sent me a photo. He's fucking flexing on me. It's funny because I totally forgot, because you sent me a photo. He's fucking flexing on me. The reverse hyper. The reverse hyper, I feel, is a very underestimated movement. What photo did I send you? You sent me a photo of your fucking reverse hyper machine, bro. Oh, okay, yeah, when you got it, no, I was like, yeah, proud moment. I was like, fuck, I ain't got nothing like this. You wouldn't like my one, you can't fit enough weights on it. Oh, isn't it the west side? It's the west side, but it's the home gym, one called the Scout Right, right, and the sleeve for plates is actually quite small, short, right, and if you only got bumper plates, you put a 25 on each side. You don't have much more room, of course. So I've probably got to invest in some steel plates. But, yeah, we're speaking to that.
Speaker 1:So joey has a reverse hyper machine, yeah, which was really I don't know if I would I don't know the history strong enough to understand this. Joe rogan talks about him on basically every episode, oh for sure. But uh, louis, uh, louis simmons, uh, of west side barbell, the founder of west side barbell. He broke his back and he really he was in all sorts of fucking, couldn't walk, couldn't sleep, couldn't anything, and he really popularized the reverse hyper. Now, maybe in his he invented it. Well, like, I don't know if he did. I mean, according to him he did, and I don't know any better than that. Yeah, but there may be some people out there on the internet going fucking sheeple. You, some people out there on the internet going fucking sheeple, you know, the fucking Scottish have been doing that for years. Whatever, bro, call us out on your podcast. Sorry, mr M657801. No photo on your profile. So Louis Simmons, credited with inventing the reverse hyper machine, it's great.
Speaker 1:But you can also do this thing unweighted. Yes, if you have a bench, you've got a kind of Pilates, swiss ball type setup, anything where you can kind of even a box like for box jumps. You brace yourself on that bad boy, your hips are off and you're lifting your legs up and back. It actually has an amazing quality which I wasn't really aware of till kind of later in my career, which is it actually helps traction and decompress your spine, which is amazing, and it gets your glutes and hammies going, as well as the lower back. Yeah, so you were saying Joe, you jump on there a little bit. Yeah, so it's like leaning against the wall at the moment. Fold up.
Speaker 1:I don't get to use it as much as I'd like to. I'd like to be doing it weekly, but, yeah, probably the three times I've used it I mean the day I got it it was on my birthday I actually had like a bit of a sore lower back and I got on there and did a set. I think I did like 20 reps and I was like, fuck, back feels really good. I was like did another two sets of training and I was like back's sorted, wow. And it has that effect.
Speaker 1:Sometimes when you just have that little bit of like, oh, it's not feeling great down there, yeah, man, it fucking fix you up. I was training with a mate yesterday. He's also got one Nice, and he said and he's 53 and considerably more beaten up than I am Sure, um, and he was saying, um, he gets on his unweighted and just sits in that bottom position where he's like flexed at 90. Yeah, and he's like I just sit there for a few minutes and often that fixes, fixes my back up, the decompression, yeah, and I think there's huge value in that. And this is where I just want to put in a little. We talked about it, uh, only a couple of eps ago which is hanging.
Speaker 1:It's just something you can do, because we spend so much time compressing our spines, having something which just actively takes a bit of load out of the spine and creates a bit of space around your. You know your pelvis, your SIJ, all that it helps a lot, yeah. So you know the, the I think the um, like, if you don't have any of this shit, sure, the my go-to there, I think it's is it child's pose in yoga? Yeah, where you're basically like kneeling and then putting your hands out and like lying on the ground with your knees up in your chest, kind of thing. That position for me, like spending a few minutes. There is actually one way where I find I can get into the lower back. It is a hard area to stretch If your knees are tight. That's the challenge there. Yeah, if you got fucked up, getting your hips down, yeah, feel me. Yeah, but for sure, having some way to lengthen through there is a challenge because we spend so much time shortening it. Yeah, but yeah, so cradle, good mornings. Reverse, hypers they're a nice medium step. Now, if you find that you can do these movements as a substitute for your deadlift and your back is not blowing up, then we'd look to kind of step it up. And so, for each of these things, if you find that you're still getting pain or you're still struggling, you probably need to investigate a bit further because all of these movements are pretty safe and sound, yeah. But let's go to level three, challenge level.
Speaker 1:The kettlebell deadlift is, I feel, the simplest, easiest, safest way to load the deadlift pattern because the weight is between your feet and you can keep a very upright spine. So it's as much a squat as it is a deadlift, even though, because the weight is in front of you, you do get a bit of load through the spine and you can get that pretty heavy, depending. You don't have to do it with a kettlebell, you can do it with a dumbbell. That's kind of sitting on its side or it's just the you can do two kettlebells. You can do two kettlebells. It's just having the weight between your legs and keeping your back quite straight. It's not really a true hinge position, like you're not really breaking at the hip. You kind of keep your back quite straight but you are loading the lumbar erectors and you are loading up the spine. So I really like that. But that's quite like that's sort of deadlifting generally isn't. It's it's mostly hinge, little bit squat, yeah, and depending on your technique, because some people you know they're like sumo. Yeah, some people you know they, they. There's a few variations, they're in, but it's.
Speaker 1:I think it's a really safe place to start because you can start really light. Yeah right, I'm just going to do a couple sets of five or six with 12 kilos. How did I go? Is my back blowing up? This is always the feedback. You want to go back like did my body tolerate it? And then you go okay, maybe next time I'll just bring it back up.
Speaker 1:Can you just talk on the difference? So you said the kettlebell deadlift, your kettlebell's between your feet? Yes, and how is that different from a barbell? So the barbell's limit is your shin. So that puts you into this kind of this forward leaning position which really loads up the posterior chain in a massive way, which is good for most people, which is great.
Speaker 1:But in the same way, some lifters well, like a lot of lifters they like a belt squat. A belt squat enables them to stay very vertical, like your mate CAP. Oh, the man Charles Allen Price, no axial loading, we love you. Yeah, a belt squat gets your legs really fucking strong while staying in a very vertical position. Doesn't stretch your shoulders, doesn't stretch your spine by having the kettlebell between your legs. It's far more efficient, you don't actually have to lean forward. So, even though your back muscles are stabilizing, and that's all good, because the kettlebell is closer to your pelvis and your center of gravity, it stops you from having to hinge as much, making it a little bit more friendly. Yeah, right on, so that's nice. So you would say that that's kind of the same benefit that people will get from, like trap bar deadlifting, similar, Similar kind of thing like the load's closer to the center of mass, and a trap bar deadlift is typically what advanced coaches will get their athletes to do if they've got shit.
Speaker 1:Hamstrings, yeah, or a hamstring injury, right, I actually hurt my hamstring, not in the gym, uh, just freaking, working, doing, doing man, shit, actually. No, I'd overloaded my hamstring and back moving boxes and then I just misstepped and strained my hamstring, which was shit, which meant I couldn't deadlift. So, uh, then the man was like, broke down the trap bar and I was like, no, no, no, I cannot accept. And then, but, it was, but it was just for a couple. Damn, this feels good. Oh, it's so efficient. Damn, I can go heavier here. Why don't we all deadlift like this? Still, a deadlift Barbell is overrated. Nah, it's a great. And yeah, I think trap bar, that's actually quite a good point, that for some of you out there, especially if you're like quite a tall person, you'll see see elite basketball players and just very tall athletes doing trap bar because it is just more efficient for those folks.
Speaker 1:The other thing I wanted to go here is once you're good with a kettlebell deadlift and your back's not blowing up and you're like how can I level this up? Is a weighted back extension? Now, when you see folks doing a back extension movement incorrectly, they will be flexing their spine and moving around too much, but it's really just an enforced hinge, like your legs are straight, you've got your feet against the plate, you want to make sure the pad is below your pelvis, so it's not up at your stomach and making you around. But this is something you can do, which is essentially you do keep your back straight more or less the whole time and you're just using your hips, lower back and hamstring and you can just very gradually add weight in the same thing with a kettlebell deadlift. Yeah, I fucking love back extensions and you know, while we're talking about before, I think that, like I think that in our um, what's what's? What's that word that, uh, glass backs. You know, I think in that, like 1990s fitness paradigm, it was, like you know, be neutral. Doing that you're gonna hurt your back, right, and it's like, nah, like back extensions feel fucking great and, like you know, I I'm a fan of like Flex and extend as much as you want. Really extend, yeah, yeah, go for it. It just fucking strengthens your back.
Speaker 1:You would hear us reference our program and the users of our programs in the podcast a lot. Something that's super cool coming up this year is some new programs that JT and I have in the works. Now one of these programs is going to be headed up by one of the current elites of jiu-jitsu. We're not going to spill the beans on who, but you're going to find out in due course. I've actually been following a bit more of a bodybuilding style program with the guys here at the gym and we're going to be dropping this at some point this year, so you'll be able to get on like a four-day-a-week upper body strength program focused on mass gain. And then we've also got additions that we're going to make to the standards program and our mobility offerings. So I wanted to get you guys excited about that.
Speaker 1:We are always adding new stuff to the platform. If you want to get involved and start using it, you will have access to all of these programs as they become released. All you got to do is go to the app store, download the Bulletproof for BJJ app and you get a two-week free trial. Don't got to pay nothing. Start training, get coached by us and get frothy on all the sick programs coming your way. See you there. It does Great and for the most time, for the most part, jiu-jitsu, our jiu-jitsu friends. Speaking of you, you're my jiu-jitsu friend.
Speaker 1:Flexion we do heaps of flexion, like knees to the chest guard inverting. There's so much flexion and we think that's good and it's fine if you have the tolerance for it. But actually people are far less likely to hurt themselves in extension. It's not impossible. But you're far less likely to bulge disc extending and most people bulge discs in flexion or rotation. So a lot of the physio like rehab stuff is all about trying to get yourself back to an extension position. So I recently have started to load these up.
Speaker 1:I got called out. I thought I was tough, I was doing, I was on the um, the ghd machine. So, uh, for some of you are the crossfit class. Yes, standard, standard operating, standard operating. I was throwing a dead ball against the wall. Three sets of 100 reps just to finish. Yeah, enum, just fucking go as fast as I could. And then I'd stop and then just do it again, sporadically, work to a heavy triple on the fucking snatch. Nice, this is the way. So I had got.
Speaker 1:Usually there's like a plate sitting in front of the machine because people are doing weighted back, essential weighted uh, glute ham, raise ghr, and it's 25 kilo plate. And I was like I can do this all day, it's easy. And I was like oh, I'm gonna be tough, I'm gonna go get a 30 kilo um dumbbell. No one's doing this. And then just I was training a bit earlier and Dan came up the stairs and he's like why are you going so light? For I was like what Get the fuck out of here? He's like you should be doing a hundred kilos on that. I'm like what are you talking about? He's like get more plates. So what are you talking about? He's like you stack the plates on top of them, you hold them like this and this. And I was like what? And so he was like do it. And I was like okay.
Speaker 1:You know, like when you get feedback from from the, from a, from a coach or a boss, you're like, yeah, okay, yes, sir, uh. And then I was like, oh, 50 is okay. And then I like put three plates. I was like, oh, my god, this is really intense, but my back is straight, so I'm not scared that I'll hurt my back. But also, like my lats were working, I was like, whoa, my expectation is just fucking jumped up for what it can be. Yeah, and I haven't touched a barbell, I'm not flexing my spine. It's actually a really safe way to load up. Yeah. So I'm not saying you should do that, but just know that you can start with your body weight and, and just once you've got the tolerance and the hemis and glutes feel good, you can add weight.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I don't think I think like as the hangover from that sort of year-to-year thing of like, be careful of back exercises like that. I don't think, like I've never had experience myself or with anyone that I've trained, with that being a problematic exercise, and I often find myself telling people dude, go heavier, looks good, go heavier, go heavier. And with that being a problematic exercise, and I often find myself telling people dude, go heavier, looks good, go heavier. And they're like you sure what? And you're like, yeah, it's not, it's never been problematic.
Speaker 1:I do find deadlifts with the barbell can become problematic. It can, and I think it's just the back extension is a simpler movement. So there's like less technical room, less room for technical error, yeah, where you can start to create problems. So, yeah, building it back up, I feel once you can do like kettlebell deadlifts, reasonably heavy, like a 40 kilo dumbbell or kettlebell, or you're holding two 20 kilo kettlebells, like half a body weight kind of vibe, yeah, and or you're doing weighted back extensions. Maybe you're holding 20 kilo plates, something like that, and you can do, uh, you know you kind of three, three sets of 10 ish.
Speaker 1:Mate, get back, yeah, just start light, just come back to the barbell, come, come back to some light plates and and I guess, just be aware of what's going on with your hips and lower back and and just keep tabs on it. But I think if you can start with improved mobility, work up to just some some just gradual loading and kind of core awareness to those kind of medium exercises and then gradually add the load, I believe people can come back to deadlifting and feel more confident. Yeah, I like that. I would just say, if you, if you do all that and it's feeling good and then come back to deads and then your back flares up again, yeah, probably need to go deeper on your deadlift technique. Yeah, like, review the fuck, because that, because that's a whole nother chat, but it is, but like that's the thing, then yeah, definitely, and then you know and it's it's funny what they need to do that well, we, I do, I just don't care enough. I'm like it's heavy enough. I'm like you know, yeah, and truth is, as much as I hate to admit this, you only need to be so strong for jujitsu. Oh, you pussy. But I want to get fucking stronger. You've been hanging out with fucking your mate Aguilar again Andy's deadlift crew what's his name from Functional Patterns yeah, just got fucking cables and I'm spinning around and shit.
Speaker 1:I just got Carl Dake looking like a fucking boss out here. I'm just throwing kettlebells. We're getting Carl Dake for the next bulletproof clip. Don't worry about that Rolling around on the ground, fucking hell. But that said, shout out, carl Dake, I love you. That's a sick promo.
Speaker 1:I do, I'm such a fan. I'm not a fan of functional patterns, but you don't need to be able to deadlift more than double your body weight, you don't? It's overkill to go there. I'm an overkill kind of guy. That's why I do that, but I would actually there's a point at which you don't.
Speaker 1:We've got a few people who are getting really very proficient and very strong through our program were like I want to be black belt at every standard, aka Ben Hanawal, and you're like, yeah, great bro, but it's not necessary. Yeah, like it's nice if you like it, but maybe there's something else that's a little bit unexplored that you should invest time in. You're crossing over from an enthusiast to being like a specialist in order to get to some of those levels. Yeah, and I don't think it necessarily makes your jiu-jitsu better at a critical point. No, I totally agree. So if you can get yourself back up to you know, if you can deadlift your own body weight, and then you're progressing to 1.5, even as high as two times like you're there, yeah, I feel body weight and a half for reps Sick, that's great. You're a strong cunt, yeah, and then just go work on some other stuff, yeah, all right.
Speaker 1:There it is, my friends. Thank you so much. You got this far. And if you got this far, you know what it is. Give us a like, give us a follow and subscribe. We appreciate the hell out of y'all. Shoo you.
