Bulletproof For BJJ Podcast
Discussions on improving your BJJ, navigating mat-politics and all aspects of the jiu jitsu lifestyle. Multiple weekly episodes for grapplers of any level. Hosted by JT and Joey - Australian jiu jitsu black belts, strength coaches, and creators of Bulletproof For BJJ App. Based out of Sydney, Australia
Bulletproof For BJJ Podcast
How BJJ Destroys Your Neck (And The Solution)
Another QNA masterpiece. We tackle three important questions about common BJJ injuries and training challenges, focusing on practical solutions for neck injuries, managing training intensity, and recovering from spinal fusion surgery.
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A good martial artist does not become tense, but ready.
Speaker 3:Essentially, at this point, the fight is over.
Speaker 1:So you pretty much flow with the goal. Who is worthy to be trusted with the secret to limitless power?
Speaker 3:I'm ready.
Speaker 4:Hey, welcome to the Bulletproof for BJJ podcast. It's a Q&A episode, so today we're answering your questions. We've got three in the bank ready to go. If you want to leave us a question for a future episode, go to our web page, bulletproof for bjjcom, hit the podcast page and record us one there. We love it.
Speaker 2:Um, we get some really cool shit and we've had some epic questions from all over the world lately yeah, it's been great, and I think the thing which makes us all the better, other than we just love hearing from you, is it helps everyone else, because the question you have is probably a question someone else needs answering damn straight, first one coming in scott sup, joey and jt.
Speaker 5:I'm a blue belt from nz, um 36. I've been training about six years. Um. I just wanted to ask about neck injuries. Um, I've herniated two discs in my neck. The first one was like a few months into white belt and I did another one just a few months ago actually, because apparently not tapping to triangles is a shit idea, which I found out. But yeah, basically I've been doing all my rehab that my physio gave me and all of that um. But I was just wondering if you had any advice on navigating sort of long-term neck injuries and jiu-jitsu um and working around that and um also your thoughts on neck strengthening in general? Um, particularly stuff like neck bridges. Um, I see people doing them at the gym sometimes and it freaks me out. But yeah, keen to hear your thoughts on that stuff. Cheers boys.
Speaker 2:Nice.
Speaker 4:Scotty from NZ.
Speaker 2:Yep neck injuries.
Speaker 4:Yeah, fuck, sorry to hear it, man Shit ass. Two weeks into white belt, that's fucking tough going Right. I've been there.
Speaker 2:I've been there. You had some neck shit. Yeah, bro, I bulged a disc C3, c2, c3. And I had to do the tractioning thing because I couldn't like a. I actually had to have like a bit of a sling set up to decompress it.
Speaker 2:So, I actually had to sleep for a period of time, kind of sitting up. Wow, really bad. So I feel your pain. In regards to people doing neck bridges, stuff like that. A really good place to start is actually just stabilizing your neck against different vectors, so you don't necessarily need to be doing like weighted work, it's just being able to stabilize your neck. So first port of call whether that's a band or maybe if you've gone so far as someone like yourself, you might want to go the path of an iron neck I think an iron neck is just a big investment. It's a premium piece of equipment.
Speaker 1:It's very expensive.
Speaker 2:It's very effective, it's very good, but the only thing about it is the cost. But essentially for myself, I had to do a lot of stabilization work. So just even just lying on your back and then just bringing your head up off the ground and then being kind of in a side plank and just stabilizing, just keeping your head here and then, in the same way like when you have a young child doing tummy time, they've got to pick their head up off. You know they're using their thoracic muscles. Just being able to lift your head up and keep that for a sustained period of time is really good for the neck stability piece.
Speaker 2:The other thing I would really encourage you to do is get big fucking traps. Trapezius goes from mid back out to the shoulders and then up the back of your head. If you want a stronger neck, you need stronger traps. One of the easiest ways you can do this without actually putting weight on your head is by doing farmer's carries. Farmer's carries and shrugs is one of the easiest ways for you to get really strong trap muscles, which will, in turn, help reinforce your neck, fortifying that region. It goes a long way, and so this is the reason why I wanted to say these things is this won't create problems if you've had bulge discs and I've been there so I know what that feels like. So not making that worse is important and then, once you've kind of built back a certain level of stability, then you can go back to doing trickier stuff like bridging and things like that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I would, um, I would second all of that. I would say, um, yeah, I've never had like a neck injury, like a neck disc injury. What I understand, though, from seeing other people go through it, is that it's something that you're going to be kind of managing probably forever, and I mean that sounds kind of shit, but really, most of us, at some point or another, are all going to have to manage something in perpetuity, so I would be really cautious to tap early on the mats. Of course, anything that affects the neck yeah, guillotines, chokes, triangles, fucking front headlock stuff just like like putting it aside as like, all right, I'm just gonna be. I'm just gonna be like really sensitive to that area, um, because you might not have to be, like you might be able to eat it, but better to save that for when you really need it. Sure, for when there's a moment you didn't get to tap to in time, or there's a competition or something like that, or coach is watching and you're fucking up some low belt, save it for when it matters, you know.
Speaker 4:But yeah, like eating a triangle against one of your counterparts on a Tuesday night, just because you're like I'm not tapping to this cunt this, you know it's taken me fucking. I still, I still, you don't do that shit myself, so I understand how hard that is, scotty, but but yeah, I'd be, I'd be really doing that, just so you can stay in the game. Now, yes, strength, building mass, the bridges, I like, and then a nice, um, a nice. First point which I think you showed me is doing bridges against the wall, yeah, where you're at quite, quite an incline, so you're just standing at a bit of an angle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, put a little towel there and we do have a video. I did, I did make a, a compilation, like a video of, uh, I think, five exercises, which is just strengthening your neck in ways that is a little bit different to what you expect before you start doing wrestlers bridges.
Speaker 4:The bridges, um, I have heard it from a couple of people who are you know. I've heard it from a good osteo friend who was like, yeah, bridges, I'm not mad about them. There's a lot of compression through the spine while you're moving into this position of extension and flexion. And if you're a beast and you've been doing that and you're well conditioned to it ie you've been wrestling since a young age then it's probably just a very, it's probably a light warmup for you. But for a lot of us jujitsu folks, we get into jujitsu and then we see something like that and we're like fuck, I'm going to give it a go and you can usually do it if you're moderately strong. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's good for you, right? And so I would think like, if you are wanting to fuck with something like that, just be really gradual about it. Keep your hands on the floor, like, keep the load light for a long time, and then you know whatever.
Speaker 2:As an intermediate step to that which um, depending on where you, where you train, you may have experienced this uh is doing stuff which is just the weight of your head. So it's a classic wrestling exercise which is yeses and no's. Yeah, where you're just lying on your back, you bring your head up off the ground and you've got to do, you know, maybe 50 or 100 no's. Often do it in juicer class as a group right and 100 yeses, and it cooks your neck like fuck. Yeah, you get fatigued and you even see, like young children, when a little kid is like shaking their head, they're other than having a great time. They're strengthening their neck muscles. So even like lying on your stomach and like looking up, looking down, just taking that bit of load which is just the weight of your head is enough to strengthen your neck I would also, if funds allow, get an iron neck.
Speaker 4:An iron neck, yeah, if I'd had, if I got that injury, I'd be like I'm gonna get this thing, I'm gonna set it up in my house somewhere. I can use it like all the time when I want yeah, and then just fucking I've got the advanced kit.
Speaker 2:It was bought for me by my sister shout out, kate white, you're a legend. She bought it for my uh birthday many years ago and you don't need any machines, because if you get the right kit, it comes with like elasticized cables and stuff like that. You just need to be able to like attach them to something. Yeah, so you can then do the moves, fuck yeah.
Speaker 3:Next question, Rob. Hey guys, my question to you relates to how I should manage the intensity of my training sessions, specifically when rolling with others. I'm a white belt who's only been training for a year, mainly in the gi. I found that lately, due to the high volume of training that I want to undertake, I'm taking a more positional, technical approach to my rolling in order to maximize my learning and not overwork myself. Unfortunately, I find that more often than not, my training partners are bringing a level of intensity that is much more geared towards intense battles and not conducive to me developing my technical skills.
Speaker 3:Often, I find that I'm faced with the decision to either A remain at a lower level of intensity while this happens which does conserve my energy but I think massively restricts my technical development, as I'm just getting crushed or B turn up the intensity to match them and to protect myself, which tires me out and, I think, also restricts my ability to learn as I stick to more familiar techniques in order to secure position. My question is how do I navigate this dilemma to best achieve my goals for learning? I often find that when I ask them to keep it light and technical, they may do this initially, but it does simply regress to going full blast. So I need to communicate better to get them on board. Thanks and all the best.
Speaker 2:A very thoughtful question, bro. Communication ain't saving you. You need to enroll with, not white belts, like no, I think what's great-.
Speaker 4:It's unrealistic for you to ask them, because they probably have best of intentions but are just unable to control that sort of thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, your thought process is great. I want to give you a lot of respect for just the fact that you're thinking about jujitsu in this way, but just know that trying to roll light against someone who's trying to rip your head off will not save you. You do. Yeah, like you're saying, need to protect yourself, need to match the intensity, to kind of go there. But execution is different from learning. You couldn't expect to be getting learning a lot out of those other than dealing with high-pressure situations, which you can still learn from those situations.
Speaker 2:But what I'd say is you would probably it sounds like want to put some time aside for some drilling, for a private lesson, for a session with a training partner who's just happy to work positions with you to go through the details. I don't think you can expect it's not a communication piece If it's sparring like, if it's just rolling, I don't think you can expect other than them being a good friend of yours for a training partner to go. Oh yeah, I'm just going to go 50% with this person If they've only got three rolls. They're coming at you, how they're coming at you, and that's a little bit outside your control. If you want more learning and more technical development. You probably need to set up a different session. That's what I'd say. Or roll with higher belts if you have the opportunity, because generally higher belts have a bit more of a spectrum, a spectrum of intensity.
Speaker 4:That that's what I've found yeah, I would agree, like if you can choose your training partners. Um, the other thing is that like, oh, you know, I find it hard to control unruly sort of beginners sometimes. Right, you're like holy shit, like there's a bunch of stuff. Okay, you're trying to do something, I'm trying to work on a thing and it's like this person's just not giving me what I need to be able to work on that thing, and one of those things is a fuck.
Speaker 2:They're not giving you any of those fucks, so sometimes in that regard.
Speaker 4:Like you know, being hard-headed about what I want to work on is sort of ill-founded and it's better for me to go all right. Well, what have I got in front of me? What can I get from this? How can I try to sort of manage this storm a little bit? Um, but there is also something to be said for, and I and I think of some of the training partners I've had over the years Ari Tabak is a great example of this Uh, you could, you could go at them with as much athleticism and intensity as you want and they would just, they would stick to their plan, they would be working on their specific thing, but they but and they would be treating as a technical thing, but that wouldn't mean that they're going light, like they would be fucking determined to get what they want from the role and they would find a way to get it.
Speaker 4:And it's maybe meaning, like I was expecting to go on path A, but it's no, it's path B or D or F, right, like, it's like finding these alternative routes. So I think there's a couple of things there, right, you could be maybe changing a little bit how you approach the role with those cats, maybe being a little bit more determined to get off what it is that you're trying to get off, but then also mixing in training with higher belts where you can have more of a mutual understanding about the intensity of this round.
Speaker 2:Yeah, controlling the intensity of your training partner is kind of like a fool's errand. That is definitely something you cannot control. All you can do is bring your best to the table in those situations. But if you are intent on getting better at jujitsu and you are technically minded, I do believe that you need to structure some training separate to rolling to do that. But good luck with that Respect.
Speaker 4:Yeah, fuck, much further ahead of the game than I was at your stage, shit.
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Speaker 1:Last one Daryl hey, jt and Joey Daryl from the sunny coast Shoo. So I'm currently two weeks into recovery from a neck injury that I sustained at work. I ended up getting surgery, which was a two-level disfusion yeah, looking like a 9 to 12-month recovery, and at the moment I'm just basically working on hip and ankle mobility. I was there some more weak points and that's basically all I can do at the moment. I guess my question is have you seen or know of anyone to come back from a neck injury like this and would you recommend anything else that I could eventually put to use as I progress through my recovery? I was going to look at your old YouTube and listen to the old episodes where you talk about neck strengthening as I get further into it. Cheers, guys. I would appreciate the work you do.
Speaker 4:Darryl legend. Sorry to hear about the neck surgery.
Speaker 2:Fusion is tough.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It is tough, yeah, it is tough. Uh, I think the thing we have to consider with, with fusion I mean other than obviously y'all, romero the greatest neck surgery.
Speaker 4:Come back, ever didn't slow him down.
Speaker 2:No, it was an advantage. Uh, no, in full respect to the fact you're fresh out of surgery, mate, and you're doing what you can, which is great. Ankles it's a great project. Ankles, knees, hips.
Speaker 2:What I'd say with that is you may want to consider that when you come back to training and you're doing jujitsu, you will have to do it a little differently. If you don't have the flexion and extension you used to have, you're probably going to have to do the jujitsu just a little bit differently. But what you can focus on in the meantime, as things heal, is still working on your range of motion through rotation and just seeing what you've got side to side and building on that. I think what a lot of people neglect, or what people don't consider, is that your ability to kind of turn your head and look with your peripheral vision is such an important thing in your life, and not just jujitsu, to spend time just building up that range of motion, as much as you might be working on your shoulder muscles or anything else you might be doing to help strengthen your neck.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think you got to see. You know, if we're looking at the spine as like one long structure and like people typically, we typically get lower back injuries because we don't have great movement in the upper portions of our spine and so then when we move whatever playing sport or just moving throughout the day all of the movements coming from the lower back, like it's all focused into one particular area because the upper areas aren't moving right Now. In an ideal world, what would be happening is that that movement would be dispersed somewhat equally across the entire spine right and so old Chinese proverb you're only as old as your spine.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 4:It's not something that we value much in the West in terms of our movement capacity. However, we can learn something from Eastern philosophy here Having a spine that moves is a master key to youthfulness, and as soon as your spine stops moving, everything else starts to shut down. Everything else radiates off that right.
Speaker 4:Sure, you might still be able to do bodybuilding and shit or play half guard but you know, but you can't really you can't really do much else, and so, being that you've had a fusion of this, this section of your spine, it's going to be really important that you restore as much movement as possible to all of the other parts of the spine, right? So thoracic, yeah, all of it thoracic, mid spine, lower back, like rotation, extension, flexion, like all of this spinal movement, and you can do that through, like you know, whatever simple, simple kind of movement test fuck around some jefferson curls, do some hanging cobra, see where it's at. You're probably going to find it, but maybe not right now because you just have surgery yet but once you, once you're like good to get back into a little bit more sort of, um, full body movement.
Speaker 4:You're probably going to find a button Maybe not right now, because you just had surgery, not just yet but once you're like good to get back into a little bit more sort of full body movement, you're going to find some shit that's probably not functioning as efficiently as it should be and that, in my view, is probably the most important thing to be working on. And then, of course, like JT said, respecting your limits and just being cautious and protective of that area, like we said to the first bloke who was the first bloke, scotty from NZ yeah, like, making that. Like all right, I'm not going to let anyone fucking grab my head.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Someone grabs my head. I'm like I'm tapping.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and a nice little adjacency, which I didn't mention with the with the previous discussion, is making your shoulders really strong. Like lifting your arm up above your head requires you to use a lot of stabilizing muscles around your neck just to keep your head still. So if you can't load your head through flexion and extension because of a fusion, you can actually start to build up the stabilizing muscles really well by doing like whether it be a shoulder press or like a lateral raise, front raise, a kettlebell snatch just by you moving your hands to that overhead position. This will help strengthen the traps, the delts and ultimately your neck. And so if you can't do much with your neck, getting your shoulders stronger will be a nice little assistance to help support the whole area.
Speaker 4:Yeah, just a thought. One thing I can say on just spinal surgeries, fusions et cetera generally is that we've seen plenty of people go through that and then just get back into full scale training jujitsu, like you know. So it's not like you're going to have a-.
Speaker 2:It's not the end of what you're doing. Yeah, so it's not like you're going to have a it's not the end of what you're doing. No, that's right. And look, Charles Allen Price. I mean I didn't know. So that's why I might sound like a complete bastard, but he has had fusion in his lumbar spine.
Speaker 4:Was it fusion, or was it disc laminectomy, or whatever? Oh God.
Speaker 2:He showed me the scar.
Speaker 2:I didn't realize because he was saying spine surgery, yeah, he can't do axial loading as a result. And I was like weak, I didn't know it was because he had surgery. And then after the podcast, he's like, mate, look at my back. And I was like, oh God, he's got these scars down his spine. I was like I didn't realize it was surgery. I just thought you were being a pussy. Anyway, we worked it out. I have a lot of respect for the man. He is very strong, considering he can't do axial loading and he does jujitsu. He bangs with some of the biggest, strongest grapplers in the world and he's A-OK. So I think there is plenty of hope for you, mate, and I think it's really good that you're working on other projects while you can't use your upper body too much, but once you can, don't be afraid to really reinforce yourself to then get back into jujitsu.
Speaker 4:Solid. Hey guys, great questions today. Thank you to those three that asked those. If you want to ask us a question, do it now Go to the Bulletproof webpage. Those three that asked those. If you want to ask us a question, do it now Go to the Bulletproof webpage bulletproofofbjjcom. Hit the podcast tab, record us a voicemail. We'll feature you on a future episode. See you, guys, next time.
