The Loyalty Dilemma: When To Leave Your BJJ Gym

Is Jiu Jitsu a fight? On a previous episode, JT took a hard stance. But now we have brought that into question once again. You want to train differently but the gym (which you love) does not have what you're looking for; what do you do?  Is G Souders full of S#@!?, or does he just not care to reexplain if you don't get it? Get all of the 100% correct and true answers here. 

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Transcript

Is Jiu-Jitsu Fighting? The Terminology Debate

Speaker 2 0:07

A good martial artist does not become tense but ready . Essentially , at this point the fight is over .

Speaker 1 0:17

So you pretty much flow with the goal . Who is worthy to be trusted with the secret to limitless power ? I'm ready .

Speaker 2 0:32

Welcome to another Bulletproof for BJJ Q&A episode where we answer your questions . If you want to leave us a question for a future Q&A , go to the website bulletproofforbjjcom , hit the podcast tab and record us a voicemail . Today we've got three good ones coming in for you guys . Let's kick off with the first . Let's go Anonymous .

Speaker 4 0:52

What's up , boys ? For this question I would like to remain anonymous , but a couple of hints as to who I am would be chiseled , jawline and massive hog . But that would decide the point . My question is in reference to the DeAndre Corbet episode . Is the ecological approach ? The future has nothing to do with the actual episode , but it does refer to you guys saying that DeAndre Corbet fought Max Hansen and he fought the best of the best and he fought this guy . He had a fight with this guy . If I remember , in a long time ago episode you said jiu-jitsu was not fighting .

Speaker 4 1:34

So I just wanted to give you guys the opportunity to clear the air . Set the record straight Is jiu-jitsu a fight or is it not a fight ? Wow , because it seems like there's some conflicting evidence . Thanks , cheers . Wow , who knew it ?

Speaker 2 1:46

to a fight or is it not a fight ? Wow , because it's seems like there's some conflicting evidence . Thanks , cheers , wow , who knew big insight from the young man obviously listened to all the previous episodes . Someone and I think fair call out jt . Well , I think it's a laziness . It's a laziness thing on my , my behalf . I still solidly believe that grappling is is not fighting in terms of it being restricted in what can be involved . It's funny that he's like I'll just throw ecological in here . Yeah , let me get two questions in on this question Look relevant to DeAndre Corbet and ecological for grappling .

Speaker 2 2:21

Mate , after speaking with Greg and I did give it some thought , mate , after speaking with Greg and I did give it some thought I have a strong impression that you really have to change the way you look at perception and the way the brain works to understand what Greg is talking about . Like he's talking about changing the way you view learning and the way the brain processes information . I don't know if everybody can just get on board with that straight away . It doesn't mean it's not better or it doesn't work , it's just that's a lot I was thinking about . I was like whoa man , you're telling me I got to change the way I perceive reality , to be able to learn better , like whoa , if I'm talking to old mate Gary and just being like , ah , look , you're trying to get better at this armbar we have to go back to cognition perception and it's tough Like , yeah , it's really great if you can do that .

Speaker 2 3:10

I think that what Greg is doing is awesome and you know , deandre as an athlete is amazing , but man not sure . Also , jujitsu is not a fight . I'll be less lazy in future . Sorry , chiseled jaw big hog man . I'll be less lazy in future . Sorry , chiseled jaw big hog man . I mean , as you say , I was just going through all the different hogs I've encountered in my life , all of them , and I'm like fuck , who could it be ?

Speaker 2 3:29

Chiseled jaw . I'm like Channing Tatum Biggest hog . You're just like hang on . Is it like

Ecological Training: Future of Jiu-Jitsu?

Speaker 2 3:36

microphone ?

Speaker 3 3:37

I've got suspicions .

Speaker 2 3:38

I've got suspicions that we in Vegas last year this is my deep suspicion . All right , so the two parts to that . Yes , I appreciate that you called out JT on his misspeaking there , because I also have thought the same thing . Wait , you said it wasn't a fight , but now it's a fight . So where do we stand on that ? I just sound like a wanker saying a grapple , like it doesn't sound right . I mean you could just say , just say , yeah , it's just a form of fighting , we're not going to get into that . No , I don't , I don't agree , uh .

Speaker 2 4:15

But regarding the ecological thing , here's what I reckon , I think . Short answer yes , I think greg souders will have a lasting influence on how we learn jujitsu . I think that him not like's innovating , but he's also bringing a body of evidence and work from elsewhere in academia and other sports , to jujitsu . There are other proponents of this . It will grow beyond him , right , but I do think that , yes , it will become a thing . I think that , like with a lot of kind of what's , what's the way to look at this , often what you get with such movements is that people come and they like , like .

Speaker 2 4:51

I think Greg's bringing a kind of radical approach , as in , he's sort of all in on it and it's like and and a lot of the proponents of it right now are like all or nothing , and I think that that I don't think that's going to be the thing , because I think that just requires if we look at how jujitsu is passed on , it's a communally taught thing . It's like oh , I learned some shit from someone . I'm a purple belt , I'm going to pass it on to these guys . So that organic nature of how it is taught means that there is no like if we had all jujitsu coaches going to university to get do a fucking PhD in it , maybe Right , but they're not . And so I think that it will always be a mix of the traditional way that we know now and then maybe some of this newer constraints based stuff . But I do think that it's going to have an impact . I don't . I don't think that is can . That doesn't sit with , uh , from what Greg said , with the conclusion of our conversation .

Speaker 3 5:47

Yeah , he said it can't right , it can't .

Speaker 2 5:49

It can't coexist . Either you look at the world this way and you learn this way , or you look at the world this way and you do that ? Yeah , but I disagree with that on the basis that he is a purist . But it's not only that he's a purist , it's coming from a take on the way the brain learns and perceives is not how we currently understand it to work . Yes , but we know that . It also like we know that the way we teach jujitsu now works .

Speaker 2 6:18

The argument is what works better , right ? So ? And he also said that , and he said like , not verbatim . But I asked him , like , do you not see coaches using elements of constraints-based learning already with , like , positional sparring ? And he said yes , but they don't know why they're doing it , which to me indicates well , sure , maybe if they knew why , they might be somewhat better at applying those tools . But , irrespective , they're going to take those tools , the ones that speak to them , and they're going to recycle them . And so , in that way , I'm like I think that you're going to end up with a mishmash you can , but I ultimately believe what Greg is trying to achieve is a complete change in the way we look at learning and then deliver learning , like deliver teaching as a result .

Speaker 2 7:07

Yeah , he is , but I don't think that's what's going to happen . I think he'll have an impact , maybe not exactly the impact he would hope to have , but I think that he'll be an influential person . I think he's already doing it , but we'll see where it goes . But good luck to you . Chiseled jaw , big hog man

Switching Gyms: Loyalty vs. Training Goals

Speaker 2 7:27

. Next one coming in anthony hey , what's up guys .

Speaker 3 7:34

Love the podcast , been honestly listening to it a lot . I'm an amazon driver out here in albuquerque , new mexico , the united states america , and uh , I have a question more about , um , maybe , if it's time to switch gyms . Uh , I haven't been doing this very long , only about two and a half months , but when I hit two months I got my second stripe and I entered a competition so I was able to do live rolls and then I won my division and I was hoping to get my third stripe , because you can't roll unless you get three stripes . I was training at Gracie Baja , okay , and I'm wondering now I'd rather switch to no gi .

Speaker 3 8:13

I don't like the gi , I really just want to stick to no gi and really get like really good training and there's a 10th planet . But I really love my professors , I really have a good bond with them . They have been helping me on the side without any extra payment , have just been helping me and being super cool and I really have a good bond there and I love the community there and I'm kind of . I'm not a big guy , I'm only like one 80 at six foot , one 85 or like one 85 , one 84 .

Speaker 3 8:40

But , I don't want to go to a gym where everyone's trying to kill each other and he's just getting hurt . So I'm wondering is should I stay and try to stick to the gi , or should I ? Am I able to go ? I feel like I'm betraying them and I don't know how to get past that . If you guys can let me know if it's too early , if I try to just stick to the gi , that'd be great . Thank you , guys , so much . Awesome podcast .

Speaker 2 9:02

Shout out Anthony Legend , there is . There's two . I feel there's two key components to this question and we've had similar questions in the past . But let's , let's speak to where you are now . Um , it's um . It is the question of one .

Speaker 2 9:20

What do I want to do with my jujitsu ? And if your intent is to do no gi and you're not enjoying the gi , then you need to spend some time at a no-gi gym . You might change your mind . You might go there , do it and then be like you know what . I want to put that gi back on . I want to get back in the pajamas , but you've got to go there to come back . The first question is what do you want to do ? You need to make a decision around that and that will inform what you do next . And you need to make a decision around that and that will inform what you do next .

Speaker 2 9:49

Now , yes , obviously it sounds like there's great coaching staff at the Gracie Baja you train at and they want to support you and clearly you've expressed early promise . You've won a tournament and you want to get that next stripe . Look , stripes and time . It doesn't sound like you've trained that long to be getting I said two and a half months , two and a half months , three stripes . I know people who've trained for two years and haven't got three stripes right , like it's all different for where you are . But the whole relationship with the coach thing , I think it's not a problem for you to go try a class at the 10th Planet Gym . Don't tell your coaches , just go do it , do it as an experiment , feel out , try before you buy , and you never know . You can make friends everywhere . Now there are coaches out there who will , kind of , you will burn a bridge by not training with them , but then over time that goes away and you can be friends again . And it shouldn't come down to loyalty , this , that , this . You want to do a certain thing . If your gym doesn't provide that service , you need to go where you can .

Speaker 2 10:56

I was training at a gym that I really liked but they just didn't have that many strong people there and even though it was a great gym and I liked the staff , I had to go where the strongest people were to get stronger and push , and that's what I did and I'm still friends with those people from that old gym and now I have new friends who , um , you know , at the new gym and um , decide what you want and then , you know , go and find out what that other thing is , because the fear of rejection , that is just going to limit your whole life . Don't worry about it . I reckon , anthony , that I think that's a very valid you know approach . What JT said as a flip on that , I think that at two and a half months you don't know jujitsu yet you don't . You don't know where you want to months it's early . You don't know jujitsu yet you don't . You don't know where you want to go , like potentially , you don't know where you want to go . That because you just don't know it , yeah . And so I'm thinking you said that you really love your professors at the gym , that you're at .

Speaker 2 11:55

A great coach once told me and this is not a jujitsu coach , this is like in the movement game but he said find a good teacher and learn whatever it is that they're teaching right , and then what I understood from that was that it's often what's more important is having a great teacher versus someone that teaches exactly the thing you want , but they're not a great teacher . Yeah , so in that way , I think , if you've got a good thing going at your current gym and you're two and a half months in , I'd fucking stick with it . I'd give it six to twelve and then if you're like , hey , I really want to pursue no gi , then fuck , go do that . But I would think that like sort of I think maybe you're looking a bit too deep right now and maybe maybe that's a bit odd that in the street , the three stripe thing before you can roll , I get that as a as a policy for safety . However , it gets a little bit kind of it sort of blows up in their face when a student who's only got two stripes can go do a competition , win , kick some ass and then come back and not be able to roll in the academy . Yeah , it's a bit weird . Yeah , it's like sending kids , like sending minors , to war and then they come back and they can't buy a beer , right , yeah . So I think that's silly and I think that maybe you could talk to your coach about that , about that and just like I really want to fucking . Just let me bang , coach , let me fucking bang bro . Yeah , that's , that's the vibe . I hope that helps man . Yeah , shout out , that's two coming in from the us .

Speaker 2 13:16

Strong representation for the us today , sir . You know what I when someone shares a secret with me and that secret is helpful . And the secret that I'm going to share with you today is the new flavor from Sodi . I'm talking about mandarin . I didn't think there was fresher flavors , but I'm telling you that mandarin it hit different . Not only does it give me sodium , potassium , magnesium to keep my muscles pumping , it gives me the chef's kiss of freshness . I cannot recommend it enough . Now , if you want to get yourself some new flavors they also have kiwi you need to go to sodicomau and use the code BULLETPROOF15 to get 15% off . Get fresh and get that flavor . Last question , robert .

Sponsor Break: New Sodi Flavors

Speaker 1 14:08

Hey guys , robert here from Kansas City Just finished part two of the Greg Souders series on constraints-based learning ecological training and you guys did a great job . My general takeaway from listening to both podcasts is a general sense of frustration . Basically , I'm listening to greg talk and he's dropping a lot of fancy big words and terms and obscure shit and all I can walk away thinking is dude , what the fuck are you talking about ? I you're just confusing the absolute hell out of me , man . So a little ironic that the skill acquisition

Communication Challenges in Constraints-Based Learning

Speaker 1 14:48

guy is fucking terrible at conveying that skill acquisition to other people . So yeah , I just got the feeling that he's one of those guys that's dropping you know , dropping big words and fancy terms just to sound impressive . It's like , I don't know , man , maybe he's right , he probably is right . I want him to be right . I think he probably is , but it comes across as dude , you either don't know what you're talking about or you're full of shit or both . So I say all that .

Speaker 1 15:24

It may sound like I didn't enjoy it . I did . I enjoy those two podcasts . I enjoy all your podcasts . Keep up the good work , guys . Thanks , take care .

Speaker 2 15:34

All right , legend , appreciate you sharing your feelings on that episode . I can appreciate that . Look two things on that . Greg is so deep in his own thought process and he actually said this after , it would have been great to have it in the interview he doesn't even realize , like , when he's talking with someone else who understands what he's talking about in terms of ecological learning and all this stuff , that people are like whoa , whoa , whoa , slow down egghead . He doesn't even realize how into his own vernacular and language and all his dogma and shit that he is , that he's not making it relatable to the common man . Yeah , and he doesn't actually kind of care to . He's kind of like no , this is the way and you know , if you get on board , then you'll benefit and otherwise whatever , like you don't have to do this . Fuck you . Like not in a negative way , but he he's unapologetic about his dedication to this thing . Does that sometimes make him kind of unapproachable , unavailable ? Yeah , and he kind of doesn't give a shit , like he's kind of he's just doing him , you know , and he's not a bad person .

Speaker 2 16:38

I will say that Greg Souders is misunderstood in that way . Is that actually ? He's not high for looting ? He's none of that he is incredibly smart but as a result , he doesn't think about how he's perceived . He doesn't think it matters and if you are a communicator and you're trying to convince people of your case , that does actually matter . But because , like Joe said , he's a Puritan , he kind of doesn't care . He's doing it for the love of the thing he's doing .

Speaker 2 17:07

The second thing on that was we didn't bring up the gi , which I would have loved to have done . But I've seen interviews where he's like the gi makes you too specific , the grips are too specific , it doesn't actually make you a real grappler . The gi is its own tool , blah , blah , blah . And he talks down all the reasons why . Because people said well , how about ecological ? For the guy he doesn't have good answers for that because it is so technical . Well , according to our boy , he doesn't have good answers for the other either . Yeah , but no , it's more just the communication piece and I what I wanted chat with Greg was to try to put it out there for the everyday guy . How can we make this complex ?

Speaker 3 17:44

fucking shit .

Speaker 2 17:45

Yeah , like , like , just make it . So I understand what you're talking about and I felt like we maybe we hit a halfway point on that . We got a bit closer . Yeah , like , I think I think we did a reasonable job of of giving him that opportunity . Yes , right , but just speaking to the Greg does know , is he making it relatable ? Probably not . Doesn't mean he's wrong , not necessarily right . It's not that he's wrong . He's got his take and if you're on board with it , that's really fucking good . And I apologize that we didn't do a better job of kind of breaking it down and making it accessible , because that was our goal .

Speaker 2 18:22

But the thing I had thought later was part of the reason why so many people in jujitsu are like what the fuck are you talking about ? Man , he's not speaking about the gi and he has openly said that the gi is not making you a great grappler . It makes you too specific . It's this because the ecological approach isn't nuanced enough around specificity for the gi and that's why doing specific drills and having specific grips is important in the gi and I would have loved to have brought that up because it was maybe a missing thing . So if you're someone who does train gi and you're listening to this guy , you're like , seems too general , maybe for the gi it is . And look , I think that you can't write him off entirely . Greg is not wrong in what he says , but the way he delivers it could be better . Yeah , and I think , robert , you know , in his piece there sort of made that point . He's like you know . All of that said , I think he's probably right , you know . And so , yeah , I think he's . Yeah , he doesn't do a great job with the communications piece .

Speaker 2 19:24

I was thinking about that . We're very spoiled these days for great communicators , right , you think about people like , uh , neil degrasse tyson , oh , the best prior to him , I , I never listened to any astrophysicist because I don't know what the fuck they're talking about . Yeah , but you got a guy like him . That's like , right , I got this skill set . I'm going to water it down and I'm going to deliver it in this way so that I can access , so people care about all these regular people and they can start to appreciate some of the tip of what I know , right , about the universe . And so in that way , you could look at all of the previous astrophysicists who weren't able to communicate like that .

Speaker 2 19:56

And this is where I think , like Greg's coming in with this puritanical piece , there are going to be people that come in that are more moderate , that can take the good bits , that can go , fuck , yeah , I can market this , I can see the gold in what he's got . I'm going to fucking take this bit , this bit , this bit , and I'm going to sell this . Sell as in marketing communication , yeah . And then that's where you start to get stuff that enters more like the , you know whatever the zeitgeist of the everyday grappler . Make it more accessible , yeah , accessible , yeah . So , um , so , yeah , yeah , a fair point , good observation . And and I enjoyed the chat too did come away from it thinking , fuck , would have been great if we just didn't feel like we wanted , like it didn't go hard enough . Give me the bullet points on that . Like , yeah , make it super simple for me yeah , and and enjoyed it nonetheless yeah , we might get another opportunity .

Speaker 2 20:42

I think you know I'd love to go out there and train uh at standard , get a chance to have a role with him and a role with his boys as well , and it would be good to hear more from the students as well , their take on the journey and all of that . But , yeah , no , you're right in terms of what you're saying , that if you understand something really well , you should be able to say it simply . And I think it's not because Greg doesn't know what he's talking about . I think he just doesn't care if you don't get it . And that's yeah , that's maybe . That's maybe that's holding the movement back a little . But good , good , good question . And that's three from three for the U ? S today Strong representation from our folks

Episode Wrap-up and Invitation for Questions

Speaker 2 21:25

over there .

Speaker 2 21:25

Um , guys , we love the questions coming from you . Please , if you've got something on your mind anything related strength , mobility , politics , gym , culture throw it into a voicemail for us . All you got to do is go to our webpage , bulletproof4bjjcom , hit the podcast tab , leave us a voicemail . We'll put it on a future episode . Appreciate you , guys . We'll see you on the next one Shoot .