Stop Rolling To The Death, Its Killing Your Progress

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Chapters

• 0:00 Competing Versus Learning In BJJ
• 2:45 A-Game Traps And Stuck Rolls
• 6:20 Off-Side Training And Skill Transfer
• 10:50 Training Is The Game, Not Competition
• 14:45 Playful Learning Beats Rote Drills
• 18:20 Letting Partners Work And Ego Checks

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:00

Is your will to win and your need to be competitive holding back your jujitsu? This is a guilty. Uh this is a challenging thing because it's not that anyone wants to lose when they are doing BJJ, but playing your A game all the time could be holding back your learning. So we're going to talk about this competitive versus creative piece and and really see how this might this might help you or hinder you, depending on how you're approaching your jujitsu right now. Um now I am an ultra competitive person. I don't like to lose at anything. And uh this is possibly why I'm I am not happy a lot of the time because I'm trying to win everything. But also I like doing some creative shit because it's it's fun. But I I find it hard to not be competitive when I'm at jujitsu. Uh especially, especially if I'm rolling somebody who's really good and they're putting it on me. I I can't accept, you know, it's it's one of those things. Like I just I there's something in me. I don't know where it's just what if it's someone that's not that good that's putting it on you? Yeah, they got lucky.

SPEAKER_00: 1:16

No, is that not worse than someone who's really good putting it on you?

SPEAKER_01: 1:20

A lot of cope going on right here. Um steroids. Um no, I I for me, I have always wanted to be the best, and so I find it difficult to not have that as a default mode. But I've had my best roles actually where I wasn't actually trying to win. Like the exchange was better. Have you have you found this Joe where where you've had a role which maybe was like very competitive, but then maybe not much happened or it wasn't oh fuck, yeah, all the time.

SPEAKER_00: 1:50

I mean, yeah, totally right. Um, Adam and I have this all the time where he pulls reverse Dela Heva and I enter my knee cut. Yeah. And just and it's and we and we we go every time we go there, and every time we both go, haha, here we are again. We're gonna be here all day. And and maybe 30 to 40 percent of the time I cut through. Uh maybe it's more like half the time I get through. Half and half, yeah. But you know, he'll have a counter thing, but then then half of the times I get through, I'll, you know, whatever, have side control or some kind of dominant position. But we're just like, why the fuck do we keep doing this every fucking time? Yeah, but it's because A game versus A game. Yeah, and it's like, and and and we've spoken about it, and it's like, well, we actually hardly get to train together. So when we train together, it's like, well, I just want to fucking go for it. Yeah, I just want to fucking throw down and I want to beat you. Give it your best. Yeah, and and so so you know, an acknowledgement there, right? If we were trained together every night or four times a week, and that was happening, you'd be like, guys, this is ridiculous. Like, we need to fucking do something else.

SPEAKER_01: 2:56

You could temper it a bit more, maybe.

SPEAKER_00: 2:58

Yeah, but but yeah, so yeah, I mean, I'm a particularly as I've done less jujitsu in recent years, my default is to just do what I always do. Sure. So you end up playing your A game, right? Definitely, um, and for sure, it totally closes you off from the myriad of other positions and things you could be learning. I I think the thing that you're gonna fucking lose, so what are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_01: 3:20

And and you know, without without going too cliche on it, it was uh the thing that highlighted this to me was um so shout out to my my house brother and friend and bulletproof athlete uh Fabinho Coloy, he plays Delaheva on the offside, like on the right side. And I don't know why it started like that for him, or maybe he chose it, but I always played Delaheiva on the left side. And when he started doing that to me, I was like As in your going around to the left, he he so I he likes to go around to the right. Yeah, he always hooks with the right side and he bolos to that side and he he has these sweeps set off that side, and it's it's kind of like someone who's a southpaw in boxing, it throws you off straight away. You're like, oh hang on, they're playing their guard to the opposite side. I'm not as good at I'm not as good at cutting to that, I'm not as good at dealing with that, and so it challenges you. And then when we were um practicing positions, he would say, Oh man, let's do it on this side. And it it's I guess it's like if you're used to training a skill or like hitting a hammer with your right hand, you try and hit with your left, and you're like, My God, my left is so much worse. We all I think we're all aware that we have a uh a dominant side, whether it's guard or a knee cut pass or whatever it is, right? But he forced me to play on the opposite side. The interesting thing I found with this, and this kind of throws me back to high school when I played basketball, my stronger side actually got better, even though it sounds strange. My old basketball coach used to make us shoot with our non-dominant hand, and as soon as I would switch back, it it might it felt so much easier to just shoot with my dominant side, and so by going to that playing Delahea on the offside on my non-preferred side, I got past more and I was uh not as good there, but after about three months, I got really good there, and so I could play either side, and then it was just like my jujitsu just expanded, and it it's kind of like that the the willingness to suck or feel foolish or be shit in the short term that then unlocks uh bigger gains.

SPEAKER_00: 5:29

Yeah, it's it's it's a funny comparison you make with the basketball thing because I was just thinking about if you were doing that, then potentially at training, at basketball training, coaches like, yeah, just shoot with your with your with your offhand.

SPEAKER_01: 5:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 5:42

And say like, okay, no worries, and you're probably missing most of your shots, right? Yeah, but it doesn't matter, it's training. Yes, and then I'm sure if you're playing games through that point, Cajus are like, don't do it at the games, at the games play your good side, right? Yeah, yeah. But with jujitsu, training is the game.

SPEAKER_01: 5:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 5:57

For most of us, yeah. Training is the competition, and so you're like this this time where you're in the lab training where you really should feel like you're like, I can't fucking do that, I've got to beat everyone. Yeah, I kind of I can't fucking lose, you know. But but this is the irony of it, and this is where you get that that sort of different paths of competitors versus hobbies, because competitors are like, no, I actually do competitions, they have a will of it. So training is different for me, and you and it's sort of ironic that a lot of those, like a lot of the really good competitors, will be working on things and allow themselves to suck in training so that they can perform better at comp. Yeah. Whereas the hobbyists are like, I will not lose training. This is to the death. Yeah, and the hobbyists will go away and be like, yo, I fucking pass so-and-so's garb. Yeah, that guy just fucking won the Australian like Nogi championships, and I passed him and choked him, you know, twice this week. Yeah. So by default, I'm obviously I am the Australian champion.

SPEAKER_01: 6:56

I stole his aura. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 6:58

Gary Tonan says that, right? Yeah. That he, you know, he famously gets subbed a bunch of times in training.

SPEAKER_01: 7:03

Yeah, and and actually Bernardo Faria was very famous for getting tapped out by lower rank people in training, and all the senior belts are like, what's wrong with you? You just got tapped out by boob. But but then in comp, he would compete against me, can't yeah, and find out what it's like. Then it's it is a different scenario. And I think it is it is challenging for folks who don't compete regularly because, like you say, that is their competition, that is the expression of their competitive spirit. So fuck, you gotta let them get it, right? Yeah, and I'm not saying don't be competitive. No, yeah, it's fuck part of the fun. Get it, you know. That's that it is. I love what I love about jujitsu is it is an excuse to express intensity. And therefore, you know, the you know, the great post-Jiu-Jitsu just you know, you just walk out, yeah, fuck, the world's okay, you know? Drive home, you're just like it's fine. You know, like you just you know, you just have this, it's kind of like being high. You're just like, it's all good, man. Like, no stress, you know, like it's just a it's a it's it's such an amazing feeling, the post-Jiu-Jitsu high, because you've been able to get out all the stress and all the nerves and all the everything, as well as having all the connectedness and everything else. The the the thing which I wanted to get to on this is like there there was actually a study done showing that if something was learnt, uh, a skill, it was actually a a skill, it was soccer skills, actually. Let's speak to you, Joe. Um, that certain soccer skills God's game. God's game, football. I've regarded this. Um, the thing is when the skills were framed as a game, they were absorbed four times faster than just skills practiced individually.

SPEAKER_00: 8:47

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 8:48

So when uh there was done with kids between the age of 10 to 14, like pre-pubescent kids, I guess, and so they were getting them to just practice like cone drills versus getting them to try to complete certain movements before shooting, right? Which were which resulted in them having to dribble more. But when they came back and they retested the kids who'd done cone drills versus the kids who'd done the games, the kids who'd done 20 minutes of games versus like I think it was like two or three hours of cone drills, actually performed better on the cone drills.

SPEAKER_00: 9:22

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 9:23

Pardon me. And so what they're saying here is that the the ability to absorb the lesson or kind of take in the message or the skill it was actually their their brains were more receptive in the fun, creative, playful element as opposed to the idea of drilling. And I know that all my uh CLA Greg Souters, all my guys out there will be like, constraints based games, boy. What? Gee, Souders, am I right? Uh shout out DeAndre. Um, but yeah, and it was just interesting because obviously that's a that's very specific soccer. It's but but they were just saying that the it's the fun and the creativity of it wasn't told to them specifically what they had to do, but through this game they were forced to dribble and move, and that meant that they got better at the skill because it was creative and fun. It wasn't necessarily like drilled into them, do this a hundred times and you must kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00: 10:23

Yeah, right. They weren't given exact instructions on how to execute the thing. No, it's like get from point A to point B. B.

SPEAKER_01: 10:30

Yeah, and it would but they had to have a certain amount of touches before they're allowed to shoot or whatever it was. And so this idea of being creative, because the thing that I've always been extremely grateful for, and you you might have had this too, Joe, where you you're rolling with someone who's way better than you and they let you work a bit. I mean, I find it frustrating now. I I find it concentrating.

SPEAKER_00: 10:52

Fucking catching in a cheeky armbar, they went and you just fucking bang, cunt. You fucking walk out of there, you're like I tap that cunt.

SPEAKER_01: 11:01

No, I thought it was good. I don't think that no, not that. Well, I had it, I well, I had it the other day uh about a bit over a month ago. I had a role with uh Nico Majillic and he um he just he just he's not like he let me work, but he didn't he didn't smash me. Best heavyweight gee guy. I could not do much to him.

SPEAKER_00: 11:22

No gee guy in the country, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 11:23

Gee and no gi. Like he's pretty under he's all around. I think he's Australia's most achieved competitor.

SPEAKER_00: 11:30

World champion in the gi, right?

SPEAKER_01: 11:31

Weight and absolute in at purple and at brown. Wow. And and and so not just worlds, I think Pan Americans and he might have won Euros. Like he's all of it, all of it in the gi. And now he is doing more no-gee. So you're gonna see more of him. The two elements that you need to guarantee your success in the gym are guidance and accountability. The big mistake that we see people making when training for BJJ is doing random workouts. That's why we made the Bulletproof for BJJ app. We have our online community that can give you feedback and help you out, and then we also have our structured programs that will get you fitter, stronger, and more flexible for BJJ. We got a 14-day free trial. Get in there, try it out, and if you decide that it's not for you, we have a hundred percent money back guarantee. So go to the Play Store, go to the app store, download the app, and we'll see you on the inside. He was too nice to me. It was it felt it hurt me because it was condescending. And he was like, nah, man, no, I didn't have it. I was like, bullshit, dude. You could have you could have armbared me, just do it. And he's like, No, I didn't, I didn't have it, you know. And he's so like he's so laid back and so nice about it. I was like, damn it, he's so much better than me. He doesn't even need to try, you know. And that's it's the same thing with um also a very handsome man. Oh, he's a lovely guy, and he it sounds he really sounds like the complete package. He's a lovely guy, he's very down to earth. You talk to him, you're like, there's no pretense about him. Wow, fuck shit. It's gotta be steroids. No, he's he's the most natty guy, you could just look at him. But it it's funny that uh like Levi, I remember rolling with Levi a couple years back. He just dropped in randomly to Vantage when it was at the old gym. Yeah, and no, he just came in. Um and I I was taking the lunch class and and he just jumped in and we had a roll, and you know, I wasn't trying super hard, but I was trying to feel what he was doing, and very quickly he took my back. Yeah, and then I was like, right, he's gonna finish me here because this is fucking Levi Levi Zanadu. He's got my back, I'm in trouble. And then he he had me in the body triangle and then he switched out and went to something else. And I was like, What are you doing? And he's like, No, man, I'm just I'm just working here, you know, like he was just grooving, vibing and sliding, and I was like, do it.

SPEAKER_00: 13:47

You're like finish me so that I get a second shot at taking your head off.

SPEAKER_01: 13:53

Give me a reason to fight back. He just did it, you know, because it's just training, and I think that's the thing where it's when somebody is being creative and they're just they're not probably too focused on trying to win, better jujitsu transpires. Yeah, you you you probably would have you know have you had that experience where you've maybe it was not something you predicted, but you just had a really great role with somebody, like the exchange was good.

SPEAKER_00: 14:19

Yeah, fuck, heaps of times, heaps of times. Some of the some of the best, some of the best roles I've had have been under that within that context of like, hey, let's let's not try and kill each other tonight. You know, I think back to some of the guys training more recently over at at um at Balmain, yeah, um, like Lockie and and Rod and stuff, where it's like, yeah, you know, with Lockie, we had that conversation of like, hey, let's not try, because we're very competitive with each other. And then as soon as we both said that, the training was sick. Yeah. And you know, shit happens, and you get these mad opportunities, and you you find yourself in situations that you didn't find yourself in before. Um, another good tip that I got from Coach Paul, actually, Paul Smeebert, was like, don't he was talking about he was talking about a reflection on when um I think Declan had come in to teach a seminar there, and he was talking about how some of the boys just like when they came to roll, they put it on him, and he's like, Declan fucking smashed them. But they put it, they put it on him real hard, um, which he goes, I just thought it was uncool, but also they didn't allow any space to just feel it out a bit, and so he was like, You can go into the role and play a bit defensively, but let him like let them move, like see, like just keep your guard retention, like you know, keep your defense tight, see what they do, but don't try to dominate from the beginning. And I thought, fuck, that's and I've you know, playing like that might sometimes after they're having that conversation, it's like you see opportunities that you didn't used to see when you're just trying to smash, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 15:54

You know, yeah, and look, Declan is I mean, obviously, Declan is a nightmare and is is Yeah, like he's he's gonna get you eventually, right? Yeah, yeah, but I mean I whatever I trained with, but but as a I trained with Declan, I think like maybe 18 months ago.

SPEAKER_00: 16:08

Yeah, and he was so nice to me. Well, yeah, an elite, an elite guy like that, similar to Nico and Levi, right? They just they don't have to prove anything. No. So you know, if you if you if you're coming at it with a slightly more chilled energy, they're probably gonna match it and it's gonna be great.

SPEAKER_01: 16:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 16:22

You know?

SPEAKER_01: 16:23

Yeah, and and I it probably comes back more to like a if we think of jujitsu kind of like a conversation, that if if someone's just yelling at you, then they can't hear what you have to say, and that uh when you are listening more, then then there's more of an exchange. Yeah. That I hear your point of view, my point of view, it's not even an argument, it's just an exchange, and that's where the learning is because you're actually you're listening, and that when you're being competitive, you're just yelling, and it's just a yelling match, and that I yell louder, you yell louder, and then it's it's that doesn't actually result in you taking anything away from what they did, you know, and it's it is cool actually, and it can come from a competitive role when someone does something to you and you don't know what it is, you're like, What the what was that? And then after the role, you go, Hey man, what was that thing you just fucking hit me with? Oh, it's just this thing where I do this and do that, and you go, What the fuck? And they show it to you, and then you're like, God damn, like the the learning is really there, yeah. And and that that is, I definitely find that I have in the past made had really terrible roles just by not allowing jujitsu to happen. Like, I'm not gonna lose. Like, it's not even about winning, it's just like I refuse to lose, so therefore, we're just gonna grind out this one position for five minutes and then you go nowhere, I go nowhere, and oh, you didn't tap me.

SPEAKER_00: 17:49

You know, like that's yeah, it gets a bit yeah, it's you you get disappointed in yourself, right? Yeah. Like playing that way. Because it's like what jujitsu actually happened. Yeah, what what did I gain from that?

SPEAKER_01: 18:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 18:00

Like, you know, let alone not even asking what did they gain, but like what did we create? But it's like, what did I learn from that? You're like, well, nothing. I just did what I always do and I didn't lose.

SPEAKER_01: 18:10

Yeah, and that's I don't know.

SPEAKER_00: 18:12

Maybe you still lost it.

SPEAKER_01: 18:13

Yeah, maybe that is the losing. Like the the mentality in and of itself is is the loss. And this idea of training versus competing, or like, yeah, it wouldn't matter if you're doing jujitsu or you're lifting weights, like there's definitely room for less intensity.

SPEAKER_00: 18:29

But I but I do think to that point, you know, because you might be hearing this discussion thinking, yeah, fuck, I need to back it off a little bit on the on the hyper competitive piece and like you know, allow some more shit to happen, you can't do it with everyone. No, there's certain people out there that you that you can't give that sort of freedom to.

SPEAKER_01: 18:45

No.

SPEAKER_00: 18:46

Um, because you can get unsafe too, like Yeah, like that's right. Like if you're rolling with someone that's scrappy and competitive and maybe a bit oblivious to the nature of the role. Or maybe they're fucking mean.

SPEAKER_01: 18:55

Yeah. They'll take advantage, you know. Like if you give people some people, as much as you like to think, oh man, I can trust my training partners, there's some people out there if probably not all of them know that you know they might they might crank it a bit, or if they get get space on you, then they might slam you, or like, you know, like there's there's those people, and just for self-preservation, you've got to keep a degree of you know, you've got to match that the energy is almost like a it's almost like a form of self-defense to not be like, oh, I'm just being creative today and yeah, uh, whatever it might be. Oh stack pass. But yeah, I think that yeah, I as someone who is uh hyper competitive, for sure the learning being competitive is is is kind of the doing and the expression, but it's not it's not the learning, it's the the the creativity and the openness is really where the improvements occur. And it's it's that I I guess that idea of the difference between um creating and then executing their I think you've said it before when we've talked about content. What's that what's that phrase, Joe?

SPEAKER_00: 20:06

The uh don't try to um plan and is it don't try to plan and execute at the same time, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 20:14

They're two separate processes, they are two separate processes, and I I personally believe that like the the learning and the executing the A game, they they are kind of um somewhat separate, quite different. So trying to do them simultaneously is may result in in neither good thing happening. There it is, folks. Stay creative, keep on learning.