No One Warned Me About This Part (Building A BJJ Business)

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Chapters

• 0:00 From Spark To Serious Business
• 2:45 Hidden Work Behind The Hype
• 6:20 Energy Costs And Admin Reality
• 10:55 Niche Markets And True Competition
• 15:40 Product Vs Marketing And Distribution
• 20:35 Learning The Hard Way And Community
• 25:40 Side Hustle Pressure And Cash Flow

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Jiu-Jitsu entrepreneurship. Starting your business around jiu-jitsu. You love BJJ, you lived the BJJ lifestyle, and now you want to start a business related to that. There can be some pitfalls, there can be some hassles, and we're going to talk about what it is or what it takes to run a jiu-jitsu-related business and what it's like to be a jiu-jitsu entrepreneur.

SPEAKER_01: 0:22

I I reckon a lot of folks work, you know, whatever, like a another job. And then they're like, oh, I've got a bit of spare time, or you know, I love jujitsu. I would love to do something in the space. Um it's a it's a it's a real easy, like uh, it's a real easy sort of motivation to find yourself fanging on because you're like, fuck yeah, I want to do, I want to do something in Jits.

SPEAKER_00: 0:44

Yeah, and I I believe the contemporary culture, um, entrepreneurship is kind of been glorified compared to like people have always been entrepreneurs running small businesses, and side hustles are a thing. But what I want to talk about is when people take that step to not do something full-time, but they really commit to the thing. They're like, it's not just something I do on weekends, this is a business now. Oh my god, there's so much involved. What the f you know, like it's it's crazy to think. So, what I want to do is I want to unpack a little bit of the bits and pieces that I guess maybe folks are not aware of. Maybe some challenges both you and I have had in our various careers and uh, you know, bulletproof as well, but then put a bit of a spotlight on a a friend of Bulletproof and what they're doing.

SPEAKER_01: 1:32

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:33

But uh, but yeah, man, I think the thing that I have I had underestimated. Like I remember when we first, when I first kind of came to you and I was like, yo, we should we should do this collab thing, man. And you're like, all right, cool. And we went to the park and we kind of fleshed it out, and before we'd even recorded any videos or anything, and then it's like it goes from that initial, like, kind of, oh shit, this is kind of cool, and fuck yeah, and why not? And we'll do it. And then you and then I remember two two things that really struck me was like when we kind of did our first batch of recording with Alan, and then our videos, yeah, how in how energy intensive that was, like big, big days, and then also procedural systematic shit where I'm like fuck register the company, like tax stuff, um, you know, who's like is this in so-and-so's name? We gotta register that with Google, like all this different stuff. It's like you didn't even when you got that cool inspired energy, it has nothing to do with the actual running of a business.

SPEAKER_01: 2:38

Yeah, yeah, it's the um motivation is so high at that initial stage, and and you just all you see is potential, yeah. And you're like, how can this not be a massive success?

SPEAKER_00: 2:51

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_01: 2:52

Um, it's kind of I liken it to um, you know, they say like the brain doesn't remember the bad parts of experiences we have, yeah, particularly experiences like childbirth. They say they say that um women's brains will actually forget some of the horrible parts of childbirth, but remember the beauty of it.

SPEAKER_00: 3:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 3:15

Because that then incentivizes them to go again. To go again, yeah. Yeah, and it's and I and I I mean small businesses like in that way, there are things, maybe not some of that stuff, right? Where it's not like it's like having to register with Google, and it's not like, oh my god, the trauma. No, no, no, but there's you don't think of it. But there are things you encounter where you're like, this fucking sucks. This isn't why I got into this.

SPEAKER_00: 3:37

Oh, a hundred percent. I think the the first thing when you're thinking about starting uh like a BJJ business, uh an important thing to consider is do you know someone else who runs a similar business? So they are now your competition, fuck them. They all must die and go up in flames. Uh no, no, no, it's it's the thing that like even speaking with um people younger than me at the gym who are who are studying, and like, oh man, I'm I'm I'm studying the law. I'm like, oh great. Have you spent much time hanging out with lawyers? Because if you haven't, maybe that's not the lifestyle you want. You know, like I I mean it's it's been pretty easy for me as a not that it's been easy, it's easy for me to understand as a personal trainer. You get up fucking early, you work all day, you know, you you fit in what you can, you get to the end of the day, you're exhausted, you didn't make that much money, and you do it every day. Like so the the energy demand of running a business is something I'm not unfamiliar with, but it's when you're trying to do a business on top of what you might already be doing. I think that's that's when it it it kind of it can be quite a shock to the system.

SPEAKER_01: 4:52

Yeah, and I I I think just on that comparison, like when you are a personal trainer, you are running your own business. But I do also think that um it's a like it's a it's a pretty light. Well, we've got a dog here with us today. It's a pretty light, you're trying to turn that thing down, it's just light it. Yeah, hit the minus buttons on the left, just on on the black screen there. Oh JT's just wrangling the fan because it's a fucking hot day in Sydney today, and we're in our interim studio. Um you don't, I mean, at least when I was a personal trainer, I wasn't running much business. You know what I mean? I was working, yeah, but you know, whatever. You pay your rent at the gym that you're working out of, and then that's kind of it. Whereas I think, you know, when you once you get once you start a business, you have all of these things of like a like a proper business, right? Whether it's an online thing or a physical thing, you have registrations, insurance, you probably have employees, you have more considerable expenses, like the list, the pile of work really adds up fast.

SPEAKER_00: 5:54

Yeah. And and I think also within that, small business is typically niche, especially if you're trying to do something related to BJJ, right? Like you're like, oh, I've got a revolutionary new gi. You're like, oh, that's a that's a good, that's a crowded market, right? Like, don't get me wrong, there's there's always room for people to innovate and do something cool, uh, which is really good. But that's the other thing to consider is that yeah, you are now in competition with everyone else who's slanging a gi.

SPEAKER_01: 6:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 6:24

In the same way, like, um, yeah, you you do any kind of a product as much as you're like, oh, there's no one in BJJ doing this, but yeah, but you're competing with everyone who's doing that in every other facet of life, they just haven't marketed to BJJ folks. It doesn't mean that BJJ folks aren't consuming that product. Do you know what I mean? Like you think of how many different um products and businesses and services that we use, but we also do BJJ.

SPEAKER_01: 6:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 6:53

We don't automatically have a fealty or a loyalty to a product because it's like it's a BJJ product. Do you know what I mean? Like we use the product we love. Yeah, we use the service we love because it does the job we want. Yeah. And I think the misunderstanding or the false assumption is people like, yeah, but it's for BJJ. You're like, yeah, but is it as good as is it accounting software? Like, how does it compete?

SPEAKER_01: 7:18

Yeah. You know? You know that point you made about the person who's studying law and then, you know, have you spent time with lawyers?

SPEAKER_00: 7:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 7:25

I I can think back to some conversations I had with people before I became a gym owner about owning a gym. That they offered me some really good advice. Uh, one in particular was I was talking with another gym owner, and he was like, Why do you want to open a gym? And I was like, Oh, because it'd be sick and we can do it how we want to do it.

SPEAKER_00: 7:44

I haven't got enough hassles in my life.

SPEAKER_01: 7:45

Yeah, like, you know, just whatever, like talking about the vision. And he's like, Yeah, look, that's cool. But he's like, if I can give you a piece of advice, don't rush to not be a personal, like, don't rush to go and open a gym because you're gonna have to start paying rent. Yeah, that's gonna place like a large pressure on like um cash flow. So you're gonna need to sell more. He's like, There's a lot of stress that comes with owning a gym. He said, where you are right now as a as a busy personal trainer, that's also a really nice place to be because it's just you, you just show up and do your thing. Yeah. And he told me that I remember him telling me that, but it meant nothing to me. Landing on deaf ears. Yeah. And this was, and this is the irony, right? I can look back on a few conversations like that with people where they told me something very, I don't know, logical or insightful and insightful, and I was just not not there for it. I'm like, I got no idea what you're saying, buddy. It's like when you talk with people in the early days and they're like, gotta know your numbers, and you're like, yep, gotta know your numbers. And then you walk away and you're like, I got no fucking idea what my numbers are. What numbers? Yeah, my phone number. And then it takes you 10, 12 years, and you're like, I understand what they meant. Yeah. But this is the dilemma because that that lawyer person, maybe they've got the, maybe that person studying law, maybe they have the ins, like maybe they've got the whatever it is, the capacity to meet those people and go, you know what? Maybe I don't love this career trajectory, but more than likely they're gonna they've got deaf ears too, and they're gonna have to go and learn the hard way, like most of us do.

SPEAKER_00: 9:14

Yeah. Oh, and for sure. And there's so many things that you only learn from being in it, and that's and fair enough, you it's very hard to succeed off the advice of others. If you can, that's really good, but the failures is what where the learnings are, right? Whether you're learning BJJ or you're starting a business, whether you spent way too much money on a marketing course that didn't translate, or you spent a bunch of money thinking someone else could help you and they actually didn't, they were just grifting you. Like, you don't realize that until you spent time with other business owners, right? And I think that this is there is a value in the community of like if you are a bit a small business owner or you're an entrepreneur, spending a little bit of time, not heaps of time, but a little bit of time with other people with similar struggles, there is some shared learnings there. Yeah. And so you could have been thinking something for a while and you're not sure, and then you say, Hey man, do you does this happen to you? You're like, Oh, yeah, all the time. You're like, oh I knew it. Yeah. But it it's hard to know when you're just out there on your own, just battling all these things of like trying to set up systems. So this is the other thing I want to talk about. Like, if you're someone who wants to open their own gym or start their own brand or whatever you're deciding to do, because you want to connect it to BJJ, you've made yourself more niche again. Now, the internet is a great thing because it it can it can connect you worldwide, potentially. But you've also got to think about distribution and postage, and there's all these things that you don't even think about. You're like, but I've just got the best product. The best product actually means nothing if you don't have great marketing and great distribution. Like, and this doesn't come from me, it's coming from Mark Andreessen. You know, whatever you make of that guy, he's very smart in terms of business. And he was like, Look, if your product is on 100 and it is absolutely the best product in the whole fucking world, but you have like subpar marketing and you don't really have a good distribution channel, no one will ever get your product. But then he he didn't say McDonald's, but I'll compare it to McDonald's. We know that McDonald's doesn't make the best burger in the world. And actually, we know that the food's pretty trash, right? But it's got amazing marketing and it's got the best distribution, like globally. Like you can get McDonald's pretty much every country in the world.

SPEAKER_01: 11:38

So and and I mean the quality of the food is not great, but the burger is consistent, the quality that's consistent. Yeah, and you could you could say that that is there's a form of excellence in that.

SPEAKER_00: 11:48

Yes, that their ability to do that across all countries is is impressive. Um, but but that's what I'm trying to get to, is that oftentimes we think, no, I've got the best. So because it's the best idea or it's an innovation, it's gonna win, it's gonna succeed. And and that's not necessarily true.

SPEAKER_01: 12:03

And that's that's often tied to you often get into the business because you got the product idea, right? Yeah, it's very rare. I think for us as sort of creative types, you don't you don't go about starting a business the other way where you're like, I got I've been thinking about the distribution and the marketing. No, just got to figure out what the product is. No, but there's there's people that do that.

SPEAKER_00: 12:23

That's what finance folks do.

SPEAKER_01: 12:24

Yeah, and that's and that I mean that's also the like an interesting and depressing thing to consider is that there are people in business who have all of that shit dialed in, do not give a fuck about helping a particular group of people or creating a solution. Yeah, that that's not they just want to make money and they will do a better job of making money than you will.

SPEAKER_00: 12:46

Because they understand business.

SPEAKER_01: 12:47

Yeah, and it's really depressing because there's a lot of great people, like great operators with their hearts in the right place and strong values and a passion and will fucking, you know, cut their fucking sleep short by six hours so that they can build this thing to help you, and they will fail. And it's like they're the motherfuckers that should be succeeding, but this is the this is how it works in business.

SPEAKER_00: 13:09

It is heartbreaking. And I I think this is this is a huge challenge, is there's so much trial and error. So even if someone were to come to you and say, right, here's your checklist, do all these things. There is still a lot of things that are off the list, which you have to find out for yourself. Like having a CRM. You pay money, you're like, this is the best CRM in the world, and then you try and use it and you're like, this is like cryptic as fuck. I don't, I haven't done software engineering. Well, I got it, but I didn't know I had to learn how to use it. Yeah, like that's that's a totally separate thing, right? And then and then you find out, oh, as soon as I send more than 500 emails, this has started to cost me$500 a month. Like, but no one told you that. You you kind of had to do that and then kind of mess up. Well, not mess up, it's just a process of discovery.

SPEAKER_01: 13:59

All of a sudden, your little idea is now eating up cash every month.

SPEAKER_00: 14:04

And and the trial and error, often your run road to success, like your learnings, it's not infinite because there is this um there is this cash or kind of funds component. And if you're if you're and this is something I want to get into now about our our business together, is like if you're subsidizing your business with your main earnings, that puts a lot of pressure on your life, especially if you have a family. And you know, you're spending nights and weekends, you're at jujitsu comps slanging stuff or talking to people, and you're spending every spare minute on the thing, which means generally quality of life goes down. Like because you you you you're into the sidewalk. Yeah, and I think what has been fortunate for the for both you and I, Joe, is that we have both had other businesses and other sources of income, which has allowed Bulletproof to stay alive as long as it has to be at the point it is. Um and and that that has actually allowed us to make better decisions because we weren't like it has to work, pleasing it. Yeah, yeah. I think that's that's actually pretty important.

SPEAKER_01: 15:16

Yeah, it's worth noting for for y'all listening that um that this like that our podcast doesn't make like much money. Like we really we make a little bit of money through YouTube, yeah. But uh probably the the bulk of the revenue of the show comes from sponsors. Yeah, and to that point, it's nothing that you would write home about. No, it's it's good. We're very grateful for it.

SPEAKER_00: 15:36

No, but our business is our app. It is our app. That's that's that's that's that is our business. It's helping people get fitter, get stronger, it's our community, like that's how we are able. We leverage the app to be able to connect with jujitsu folks to help them. Yeah, that's the business.

SPEAKER_01: 15:51

But I but I say that because the the pod is what most people know us for, right? And they're like, you guys are huge. And we're like, yeah, it's a pretty big show. And then people like, wow, so how much money do you make? And you're like, oh fuck all. None. Yeah. And it's like, oh wow. Like I thought, you know, like we've, you know, who knows, right? Podcasting is still kind of this little whatever microcosm of its own. But um, but that's exactly right. The product is the app and and our and our our programming to help jujitsu athletes thrive on the mats. Um, but to that point, right, it's like it's a small business. Yeah. And if we make some bad decisions, it could all come crumbling down at any point. Oh, 100%. Like it's not, you're never really sitting pretty with it.

SPEAKER_00: 16:37

No. And and I think I don't know if you ever hit that point other than if you are actually able to get a bigger uh financial partner who is able to kind of stabilize it in that way. Uh, but then that that has its own problems, right? And that's the thing too. I think the the fortunate thing uh between you and I, Joe, is we have complementary skills, or you there's certain things that you gravitate towards or like that I don't don't love. We'll do, but like doesn't it doesn't take my keen interest, and vice versa. You're like, bro, just you go work that out. I don't don't tell me about it, you go figure it out, you know? And so that's I think that's m enabled our business to have a certain degree of longevity. Whereas if you're a solopreneur, if you're just it's just you, that can be fucking tough.

SPEAKER_01: 17:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 17:29

Like if you're not someone who's good with numbers or you don't like to do the books, you you better get a good accountant or a bookkeeper.

SPEAKER_01: 17:35

Or you better become get savvy with it.

SPEAKER_00: 17:37

Yeah, get get get at least a base minimum awareness. In the same way, if you're someone who loves numbers but you suck with creative or you don't want to get in front of the camera, or so I went to this uh, you know, this uh small business marketing course, and what I realized is a huge advantage we had over those folks, they weren't content makers, they were like plumbers and electricians and fucking all kinds of different financial services people. And the guy that's running the course was like, you have to get in front of the camera. And they were like, you could feel the room just go, oh, and he's like, No, this is you have to, because he was talking about how if you just have a beautiful website and great landing pages, but there's not a person connected to it, conversion goes way down. Right. If they see a person associated with, and we've seen it in the past with many famous brands that there's someone who is the face of the brand. Yeah, even if they don't run the business, yeah. Whether it's a home loans business, a fucking could be a famous person smoking cigarettes, you're like, ah, yeah, you know, like it's UE insurance has that little guy in the fucking trench coat. Yeah, like there's this yeah, it becomes its own icon and humans trust humans. So if you're not someone who's if you really cringe at the idea of getting on camera, fuck you gotta get over that. Cause this is this is the way people engage with your business, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 18:59

Yeah, yeah, and it's um, I mean, and you can't you can't pay someone else to do that. No. Until you're fucking Nike, sure, then you can pay some cunt.

SPEAKER_00: 19:08

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and that's the thing, it it always takes longer than you expect. And, you know, I I I guess the thing that I wanted to go to here is like you know, every business is different, has its own unique challenges. But if you're someone who is trying to take that step between you've got a job and you've got a side hustle and you want to make it more of a business, just know it's actually gonna be a couple of years before that is self-sustaining or almost self sustaining. Like most businesses don't make it out of the first five years. Yeah. So you y there will be ups and downs, and you need a way. There needs to be a financial engine there, whatever that looks like. So I think this is something that most people don't tell you.

SPEAKER_01: 19:59

Yeah. The the other and the other side of that is that it can go either way, but you might be in a position where you can maintain, say, a reduced commitment to your current job. Maybe you got a full-time job and you go, I'm gonna go part-time, I'm gonna go like three days a week on that. And then I'm gonna use the other two days or three days a week to work on my thing and build that up. That might work really well for you. But what can often happen is that you just continue to naturally bias your attention towards the thing that produces more revenue, which is your existing job. And so your side hustle that you're trying to build into a real business never really takes off.

SPEAKER_00: 20:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 20:38

So what has worked for me and for others in the past at different times is to just go all in on the thing you're trying to grow and you kind of paint yourself into a corner. So you have to make it. You have to. But then there's also a huge risk in that because you fucking, you know, you untether yourself from this security and you go into the murky waters. Um, and so then it also depends, like, well, what what other commitments do you have? Do you have a family? Do you have a mortgage, that kind of shit? What kind of personality do you like the pressure of having to make a thing work? Or you know, do you not really want to fuck with that too much? You like to keep it a bit more chill. Maybe you have to suck it and see. Yeah. But it's worth it's worth understanding that both approaches can work.

SPEAKER_00: 21:18

Yeah, the level of discomfort you can tolerate is huge. Like they they say that about anyone who's successful, it's your ability to take pain. And we're not just talking about eating a knee ride, we're talking about that churning of your stomach, that kind of almost nauseating feeling of like, I just got a bill from the ATO for$5,000. I just I just gave them money. Yeah, what I'm still paying off my last instalment. Yeah, and they just oh no, we changed the tax law. Yeah. So you're a director, so here's your bill. What the f like for me, like as someone who has a tendency to overthink, I I find it hard to let that go. Not not that I could do anything in that moment right now to just generate money, but that that that does stuff like that chews me up a bit. Yeah. And and and it's it is hard to be able to let go, especially when you're so when you're really passionate about something, it's hard to let it go at the end of the day. Whereas if you do a job where you don't care about it, you can be like, ah, leave and don't think so much.

SPEAKER_01: 22:24

Yeah, and you're not getting any tax bill, right? So yeah, fucking the CEO gets that. Yeah, get on with your dad.

SPEAKER_00: 22:29

Yeah, yeah. But uh no, speaking of big, big bets, big risks, I I did want to have this chat because I want to give a shout out. Now I'm gonna pass you that guy because you're the USIE master.

SPEAKER_01: 22:40

This is the fucking tropical Usai.

SPEAKER_00: 22:42

Yeah, I want to give a shout out to my boy Darcy Ogden Nolan, the founder of Raised Bar and his wife Jess and their beautiful little daughter, Esme. They are bringing this out, so this will be available very soon for y'all to go get. And uh yeah, it's built he built this for jujitsu people, right?

SPEAKER_01: 23:01

Jiu Jitsu folks, you've got this fucking thing is tropical asai flavour.

SPEAKER_00: 23:05

I love that.

SPEAKER_01: 23:05

It was the it's the first bar or product that is not asai. Oh, and besides that pre-workout that we had, okay.

SPEAKER_00: 23:13

You have that's flavoured, but I don't know if it had any Sai in it.

SPEAKER_01: 23:16

But um, but yeah, the first like AE flavoured thing. It's fucked, it's pretty good actually.

SPEAKER_00: 23:20

Uh salted caramel. And we also have the rich chocolate and and uh roasted almond. Had that with my coffee, very good.

SPEAKER_01: 23:28

Look, most of these bars are bullshit, I'll be honest. I've eaten a lot over the years. I will sometimes go for like a protein bar or something when I'm at the service station, gas station for the American fam. Um, because you're like, yeah, I'm I'm I'm in need of some protein. Uh, and they always fucking leave a terrible taste in it. Like it's always like this is gross. You've wash them down with a bunch of water. I really fucking hate them. But I ate one of these and it's fucking delicious. And it just reminds me of like one of those paleo style bars that's like clean ingredients, good quality shit. It's actually got plenty of protein in it, which I like, um, but it's all like natural stuff. Um I'm a fan.

SPEAKER_00: 24:06

Yeah, definitely. And the thing, which I guess it's like many things, once you know the story behind a thing, you're like, fuck, I had no idea. Yeah, you know, like you pick a thing up, you're like, oh yeah, how's it taste? That's good. But then you're like, someone had to design that logo. Yeah, you know, this packet had to be made. That nutrition had to go through, this had to get approved. Like, I have been behind the scenes along for the journey. Uh, became, you know, Darcy's been a friend of the pod for a long time. And I I met him in person when I went up and and at um met him up uh oh at Harvell's gym. Oh, did the uh bulletproof seminar there. Yeah, and and so it was amazing to sit down and talk with him. And the journey he's gone through to make this happen is freaking crazy. Like, you get someone who says they're gonna make the bars for you, you agree to that, you pay money, then they pull out, and then you gotta try and get your fucking money back, and then you gotta find someone else who's gonna do it, and then someone who says they're gonna package it, they go out of business, and you're like, fuck, we've got to find a new package. Like it's such a hassle to actually make a physical product is incredible. Yeah, and for it to be good as well, like first time, like it's like God. I mean, don't get me wrong, Darcy is a pro, he's a professional guy, loves jujitsu.

SPEAKER_01: 25:24

We probably went through a bunch of testing and shit with it, right?

SPEAKER_00: 25:26

Yeah, finding the recipes to get it right, but yeah, so it's it the the website, I believe, will be live by the time you guys see this episode. So you can click the link below, and when you use the code Bulletproof with your order, you can get some free bars in that order for y'all. So it's a it's a nice little offer there. And man, I just want to I want to give a shout out to Darcy because he is literally they got like a nine-month-old daughter, and I've seen them the hustle they go through to make this happen. And it's it's he's helped us out with various projects we've done. Yeah, he's helped us with our email and and and always very open, very sharing, yeah, very generous guy. And so for him to be like that and have the amount of work he's had to do to make this happen is it's been very impressive. So I just want to give a shout out to him as an entrepreneur, and then also just like what it takes to take something from an idea to the the physical reality is is incredible.

SPEAKER_01: 26:22

Yeah, I mean, we um we've encountered quite a few jujitsu small businesses in our time through this thing, haven't we? For sure.

SPEAKER_00: 26:29

And just quickly, I want to give a shout out to Collie Coolers because they did send us their product and I did try it out at home. Not that I had like I have one badly cauliflower here, right? And and he asked that we shout him out, and we never did it because I'm a bad human. But I want to give a shout out to Collie Coolers straight out of Perth. It's a great product, even though it goes against my philosophy that you should have cauliflowers. But if you're someone who doesn't want cauliflowers, then you should play with that. I'm gonna I'm gonna put a link down below for caulicoolers too, because he's like a legit product jujitsu person trying to do a good thing. So shout out to collie coolers, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 27:06

Like we've encountered, um, we've encountered a lot of small businesses, right? Yeah. I think we got um we got we had some really cool interactions. Was it was it Armbar Soap Company?

SPEAKER_00: 27:15

Armbar Soap Company, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 27:16

And they closed down?

SPEAKER_00: 27:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 27:17

They closed down some time ago. During COVID, there was that group that sent like a jiu-jitsu gift box.

SPEAKER_00: 27:22

Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_01: 27:23

With a bunch of different products. They I think they shut down. Yeah, we got uh, you know, fuck it with their fuck it with the fighters care kit, yeah, the finger team.

SPEAKER_00: 27:32

Yeah, finger team.

SPEAKER_01: 27:32

You know, and so there's still got still going by the way, still going, and there's but so there's a lot of these small operators that are like just fucking having a crack, trying to make it happen. Um, fanware, the guys that do our shirts, yeah, right? Great service. Two women in small business are just trying to get something going. And so it's a fucking battle, and uh, you know, whatever. We got a show here, we like to try and give a bit of shine where possible.

SPEAKER_00: 27:53

Yeah, and I and I think that you know, and I'm not saying this because I want you all to send us a bunch of stuff for us to shout you out, it's more because, like, don't get me wrong, it is appreciated, love to y'all, but we also have sponsors that we have to honor, right? Because they pay us money.

SPEAKER_01: 28:09

So and if you make you know fine woodworking tools and you want to send me a set of chisels, you know, just send them.

SPEAKER_00: 28:17

Like, I'll I'll use them and you know Cameron Elder make some customers.

SPEAKER_01: 28:21

You got the big one, I just need another rest of the knives.

SPEAKER_00: 28:27

Man, no, I look, I I think the reason why I want to have this chat is both Joe and I have had our individual entrepreneurial struggles as well as our shared struggle to make a thing happen. And I I, you know, there's so many unforeseen things. I want to encourage people, but it's also I want people to go in eyes open and do the research. Do I need a CRM? Do you have a good accountant? What taxes do you need to pay? You know, like do a bit a bit more research, other than this is just a great idea, I'ma do this. Because this is the thing I was saying to Joe at the end. When you start to make something like the ultimate aim of a business is to make money. Like as much as you want to do something you enjoy, if it doesn't make money, then it it won't be sustained and it ultimately will perish. Here's the thing if you if you don't if you bet the farm on a thing and you don't know enough about it, you're gonna lose the farm. You know, you go if you don't know the odds of your chance of winning, then that's a bad bet. That's a really bad bet. And sometimes you shouldn't play that game if you're not if you're not someone who's got the appetite for the risk. And like many artists who try to make money off their art, it can sour the creative experience because you're depending on it, and that can force you to make decisions that are not good for your creativity or suck the enjoyment out of the thing that you loved initially, which can, you know, that can suck. And so I don't say that to be negative, but these are potential outcomes for folks who who do have a red hot crack and spend a lot of money, and then it can result in um, you know, uh a less than satisfactory outcome. Spot on. But folks, shout out to all our BJJ entrepreneurs, keep up the fight.