You're Not Bad At Jiu Jitsu... You're Learning It Wrong

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Transcript

Jiu Jitsu Amnesia And Overcoaching

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Why you never remember anything after going to jujitsu? Jiu Jitsu amnesia, folks, it happens all the freaking time. Uh, I've experienced it multiple times, most times I would say. And it sucks because you go to jujitsu, you all g'd up, you've eaten your food, you've had your caffeine, you do the class, you get to end the class, you're like, what? What do we do? Or you the next day you forget straight away.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

It's usually when you go back to class and coach like, hey, remember that thing we did? And you're like, nah. Blank. Don't remember a fucking thing. Blank. And but I gotta still got a sick jump gillo, and that's what I'm gonna hit tonight on everyone. I know I know what I'm working.

Task Switching Kills Retention

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Forget what you got, coach. Um, look, trying to learn too much is at the heart of this. And I want to unpack this because this is very common. And obviously, I I'm probably guilty of this uh as a coach, and Joe will uh give testament to this of trying to give too much to a student in terms of overloading them with information. And then you do this, and then you do that, and also this and this, and and you think that you're helping your student, but actually you're you're hurting them by giving them too much instruction. Yeah, you're overcoaching, and that really means that none of it sticks as a result. And look, obviously, everybody's different in the way they teach jujitsu, whether they're they're of the kind of CLA persuasion and they're setting up games and constraints-led approach for those not in the no. You're in the G Souda school, or you like to drill, or however you choose to um, you know, learn. If you're out there, you're trying to learn jujitsu and you've experienced this uh jujitsu amnesia, it's it's a very frustrating thing. And one of the major causes of this is task switching. Now, in our modern day distracted lifestyle, you may have had this Joe where you're you you you're kind of getting on something, you're you're sitting down, you're like, I'm totally killing this fucking spreadsheet right now. And then your son comes in. Oh, what is it, buddy? And he's like, I just uh painted the dog red. You're like, what? And you're like, fuck. You go sort that out, and then you come back, and then maybe some something you get a phone call. You know, like you it's broken your ability to focus. Half an hour later, you come back, you're like, shit, well, where was I? Yeah. This task switching serves as the biggest kind of neural tax of anything. And they're saying that's a a lot of the reason why people are not as effective at their jobs or doing things or focusing is because there's constant task switching, whether it be an email, a call, a sick kid, whatever the bloody hell, in jujitsu, it is very common that the coach will show you one thing, you'll drill it or practice it somehow through a game or a situation, and then you'll just switch. And at no point have you really spent that much time on a thing. You experienced this before, Joe?

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Oh, all the time. I'm I am all in on that the prevailing culture in jujitsu is is absurd in how it expects students to learn. It's cooked. Yeah, it's absolutely that you know that every every class this week I'm gonna show you something different. Something new. Yeah, hey, tonight we did leg locks yesterday, so tonight let's do back attacks, and tomorrow let's do this cool half guard thing. Yeah. Um it and and and to expect that that single exposure in that one hour, that 90-minute class is gonna be sufficient to build any kind of understanding for that student. Even for me as a black belt, I forget the majority of the classes I go to because it's something that is unrelated to to my game. Yeah. And it's and it's like we're just doing this for the first time today, and then there's no repetition of it tomorrow or next week. And then it's like I like here, you know, here's here's an interesting kind of thought, right? Let's take your standard grappler who trains three times a week, and so over a 50-week year, that is 150 training sessions, right? Yes, 150 hours of jujitsu. If you broke that up, if we said, let's assign, let's assign 10 lessons to a particular technique. Like let's go like yeah, yeah, let's go 10 lessons on mount, yeah, 10 lessons on back attack, 10 lessons on guard passing, right? And you could kind of change the the 10, 15, 20, whatever you want. You go, that's a lot of lessons on that. Now we're saying 10 lessons, so that should be 15 unique skill sets that that student has create has has has achieved, gained by the end of that year. Now, if you train jujitsu for five years, you should be really fucking good. You would hope so. But we're not because we don't do it like that. No, we go, I gotta give them new shit every day. And as a result, there's just no, there's no, it is no like um, you simply don't remember the shit. Yeah, it doesn't stick.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

Doesn't stick. And and but here's the other thing with that, Joe. You might have learned something in January. Coach comes back to it in end of February, you're like, right, we're going back to that good stuff video. You're like, I don't even remember what we did in January. So every time you're like kind of relearning and not sticking. Yeah. So even if you were to do it 15 times, it doesn't hit. And the thing I wanted to go there. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

And sorry, for my example, I'm like 10 times in a row. Oh, in a row. Okay, like every let for the next 10 lessons, we're just doing this. This, right. But every most coaches I know are too scared to do that. That's right. They're like, It's too boring. It's boring. The guy, everyone's gonna leave the gym. Yeah, you know, like there's this belief that like you have to throw novel, fucking exciting things at people every week, otherwise they're not gonna show up.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

Yeah, I I think that's just I don't know if that's actually based in any truth at all. Like I think it's lazy coaching.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

I think it's I think it's a lack of it's a lack of long-term perspective, and it's just going like, oh, I'll just figure it out on the way into class.

Relevance Creates Real Memory

SPEAKER_00 6:10

Maybe, but maybe is it also a little bit of inexperience or lack of confidence that the person is like, no, I got all this good shit. I don't want to hold it back. Like, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? On the on the flip side, you know, like it's not that they're not doing enough, they're doing too much, you know, on the other side of that. Yep. But what you said is a key phrase is it's unrelated. Now, this is a key thing with memory. So there's a really good um learning coach, a guy called Justin Sung, who is a medical student. Always Asian dudes. Oh, mate, he's the best. He is the smartest. Shout out to Justin. He um his YouTube channel sick, it's all about learning. And he was studying medicine, and he was like, fucking, we're all in here just fucking snorting Adderall and just punching mad hours. Why is no one doing this better? Like, surely we should find a better way to do this. And he was saying the biggest problem was the information was unrelated. So he's like, your brain is looking at information like, um, is this gonna stop me from dying or not? Okay, if it's not gonna stop me from dying, then for like if it doesn't relate it to something that you classify as important or relevant, you will literally not remember it. So he's like, it's super important that the teacher or you as the learner find a way to connect the information to something that's related to you. But this is the biggest problem, right? Coach doesn't really think too much about your game. You've come to this system, you've come to learn what we have to show you. So even if you've done rugby or you've done wrestling or whatever, it's like, no, no, no, you're doing Spider Guide now. You're like, hang on fucking second, I don't know anything about this, right? So it doesn't connect. And the idea of it being unrelated means it it will not stick. Doesn't have like anything to attach to. No, and that is really important. And I think whether you're an individual learner or you're a coach, you're hearing this, having a way for it to connect. It's almost like you you probably had this joke. I have it more times than I care to remember. Um, it's just from probably being over-caffeinated and and maybe being insincere. I forget people's names. I meet someone straight away, I fucking forget their name. Oh, I think everyone reports a bit. You know, you know, sounds like you're you're at a party or you're just like, oh, hey, meet so-and-so. You're like, hey, how are you? Nice to meet you. And then you just now, if I don't actually connect their name to something, that name is gone.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Yes. You know what I think that is though? I think it's usually well-meaning. I think it's you're so concerned about what you're gonna say next, you're like, introduction's happening. I'm gonna ask this guy, how do you know the person whose birthday is? Yeah, and so and then and so then you go to that and then you're like, fuck, I didn't even pay attention to the name.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

The thing, yeah. The thing which we each consider to be very important.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

But uh so here's the thing. The thing that I do to try and overcome that is I say, Oh, um, what's your last name? Like, what's what are your initials? Or what's your middle name? Or I try to find a hook, and I'm like, oh, your name is Jordan Michael, Michael Jordan. All right, cool, cool. Like I have to create a memory hook. Is there a Brian Kobe at the party here? Hey, Brian, Mamba, am I right?

Electrolytes And Training Snacks

SPEAKER_01 9:20

No, I just it's the hardest thing for me is like if I don't do it, I Hey, if I can give you my honest recommendation for one of the best supplements I've implemented in my daily, particularly for my jujitsu training, it's sodium. It's these electrolytes. We talk about them all the time. They've sponsored the show for some time, but it's excellent. Flavor's great, but more importantly, the electrolytes are exactly what my body wants in a hard, sweaty jujitsu session. It replenishes uh my system with all the stuff that I need after all of that sweat. Uh, magnesium, potassium, salt, it's great stuff. You can get yourself a bunch and you can get yourself a discount if you go to sodysodoui.com.au and you use the code Bulletproof15, you get 15% off your order.

Multitasking Myths And Beginner Overload

SPEAKER_00 10:02

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SPEAKER_01 11:13

Yeah. And if you if you think that you can focus on four things at once, then you don't actually know what proper focus is. That's right. You're just, yeah, you're just you're surviving and doing a shit job of all. That's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

And so the the challenge is oftentimes when you're learning jujitsu, your coach will ask you to do four things at once. Now put your hand here and put your foot like that and make sure your elbows up like this and like brace, and then you're like, the fuck am I doing here? Like, I'm spinning plates. I how can I juggle? Like, it is insane the expectation we put on ourselves to be able to do so much stuff, especially if you're in a very weird body position. You're upside down and they're sprawling on you, and maybe smell their balls because they're sprawling into your face, and you're like, Jesus, like, how am I gonna get a sweep from here? Try not to think about the balls, don't be gay. Don't suffer, don't shout out to the gay fam. Well, I mean, whatever. I think it's one of those things that you can get yourself in some pretty confusing situations in jujitsu, which is it's in it's funny in.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

There's so much going on. There's so much going on. And this is, I mean, this is largely where a lot of coaches really just have kind of lost any kind of connection with what it's like to be a beginner.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Where like you've got someone new that's come in, they're dealing with the whole fucking stress of being in a new environment in a place where they don't feel like they belong yet, and all that, and then the physical contact, and then they're like, you know, having hands on them from their training partner for the first and and coaches like trying to walk them through the 15-step setup to fucking pass reverse de la Heva. Yeah, you know, and you're like, mate, like you know what I mean? It's just so, and you see it, and you I cringe so much, it's like, man, fuck, come on, like and this is where I think that like exercise and strength training has really developed a lot as a science, whereby it's like we know the most effective way to teach it, and it's like breadcrumbs, little bit, little bit, little bit, and it's like little bit today, little bit next week, you know, it's like this gradual process. Um, whereas jujitsu is just like stuck in the dark ages with this shit. Not not all, right? Like, there's and and this is to to just give reference to Souders and just the CLA thing, I believe that he is trying to like I believe that what he's doing, I I don't really vibe with the way he's going about it. Sure. But I think that that is introducing an idea to people which is there's better ways to teach this shit. Yeah. And I think that that is revolutionary and needed.

What School Gets Wrong About Learning

SPEAKER_00 13:48

Sure. And then and I do agree, I do agree with what you're saying there. And look, um, Greg's outers to the side, but full respect. Um, and and and anyone who's doing that, you know, there's a lot of people, I have a lot of friends who are training with Greg and saying lots of good things about his methods, you know. Um, but the thing that I want to kind of circle back around on, which is what what you had said at the start, Joe, which is this idea of doing too much, like, you know, switching and and and a new technique, every different class. Um, Ken Robinson, Sir Ken Robinson, uh R.I.P., who uh passed away I think a year or two ago, is one of was one of the kind of most expert people in education and types of learning. And and really he had a lot of negative things to say about modern education because it was really based on the industrial revolution and bells and whistles and making people sit and work in a factory and this kind of thing. But the thing he said that was um the reason why he believed modern day contemporary education was flawed was you make someone sit in a room for 40 minutes, an hour, and then the bell rings and they have to change rooms and then they have to go study some other uh piece of information and then go to another and switch, switch, switch, switch, switch. And then there's no real solid evidence to suggest that this is a good way to learn. It's just a system. And he was like, actually and and every child's different, you would uh allow a child to be immersed, and they've shown that just letting a kid work on something with curiosity is one of the key ways for them to absorb the information the most. So why would you also make them uh or subject them to something that they're really not interested in? Because that they will actively block like not want to learn that and do things to distract the other people who do want to do it. And you know, I was definitely one of those kids, you know, like try and jump out the window or do fucking anything else but be stuck in a room being subjected to something which is just really there's no curiosity there. And to it's this idea that they have to keep switching. And really, if you could leave somebody who was in, yeah, and we've all you've probably experienced this too, Joe. Like we're talking about, I want to go throw to your um experience playing guitar, uh learning guitar. When you kind of get in a bit of a flow, you're like, oh, I'm I'm I'm it's I'm clicking, you know, like you're like, oh, I'm in a good mode here. And it's it's kind of rare, like it doesn't, it doesn't happen every class, but when you get it, it's a beautiful thing. And I know I felt that in jujitsu where I'm like, okay, yeah, that makes sense. I'm getting that. And then I was able to execute the technique in a role. And I'm like, fucking the learning is happening today.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

But that's not every class.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Yeah, no, it's few and far between.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Right. And and so what um so Ken Robinson was talking about was allowing kids to be immersed in an idea or allow them to stay in something longer than just like 50 minutes. Like just leave them. Yeah, that's a as long as they're curious.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

That's a really fascinating point, is because we do that in high school, don't we? Yes, that's correct.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

So constantly switching, switching topics.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's it's funny. I had my first parent-teacher interview the other day, right? Because my son's in kindergarten and first term's done, and and um, you know, you sit with the teacher for 10 minutes, they give you a bit of a spiel. It's really nice, but but you know, she was um the teacher was able to show us some stuff they've been working on and they're learning numbers and letters, right? And um she had made the point, like, don't force any of this stuff down their throat. Because if you do, like we give some, they give some extra kind of books and things to read, but they're like, if they don't want to do it, don't push it because you're just gonna make them push back. If they push back, then nothing gets in. Right, you know, and so she's like, we've just got to keep it fun. And I was like, that's fucking cool. That makes me think that at least in early childhood development, it's gotta, it must have come a long way, right? Since from when we were in kindergarten. Sure. You know, in terms of like they are more aware of the kids' limitations and that fun is a huge part of it. Play. That shit probably goes out the window after primary school. Maybe, or probably, you know, in year three or something. But but yeah, you would hope that over time the education system, at least a half decent one, like I tend to think ours is okay, could evolve. Sure. Um, but yeah, the foundation of it is still kind of based on this industrial revolution requirement for workers, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 18:25

Yeah, and that's I think this is the hard thing that deep processing is what leads to good connections and good learning. And you know, like I never did really any formal Portuguese lessons, but I was learning at a crazy rate, just watching, learning, picking up body language, like just listening to the language and being in Brazil. Being in Brazil, yeah. And I think anyone who's ever had that immersive experience of like, you don't have a fucking choice. Almost no one here speaks English. You better pick up on some words. You might have a dictionary or Google Translate, but you you have no choice but to absorb this information, yeah. And the need to do it is is I wouldn't say desperation, but you know, like um Yeah, it's a it's a necessity, it's a survival instinct in a lot of ways. And when it comes to jujitsu, you know, it's kind of sink or swim. You don't learn this escape, you're getting choked. And and if you don't really understand, like obviously the coach is there to facilitate and and and shape it and steer it, but I I feel like part of the problem here is that we end up going really shallow across a lot of things and not deep on one thing, and that's why it doesn't stick. Yeah, this is this is the I believe the root cause, and like you're saying, maybe it's uh fear from the um instructor of like, oh, I don't want the students to be bored, but without allowing uh a good amount of time for you know, obviously students in a jiu-jitsu class are all different walks of life and ages and all of that, but letting them talk and discuss and you know, like actually that's a funny thing. There's a funny line that um Sir Ken Robinson says in one of his talks is he's like, and and look straight ahead and don't talk to the student next to you because that's cheating. And in the workplace we call it collaboration. And then, you know, like it's like you know, this idea of a structure, then you could let three or four students sit together and kind of put it together and and then maybe there's a good outcome there without your ego as the instructor. Yeah, like I taught you that. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Because that that um learning happens in a at a lot of different speeds.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Yeah. You know, um, I had a fucking thought on that. It's gone. That's all good as it were.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

No, no, no. I I I think the the challenge is you're running a school, you're an instructor, you you know, people are used to a format of X amount of time, X amount of information, and I want to feel I've done A, B, and C. Right? That's the the formalized element. And yes, as an as a uh owner and an instructor, you've got to be able to conduct various levels of skill, whether it be beginners, intermediate, advanced, whatever.

Fundamentals And Spaced Repetition Plan

SPEAKER_01 21:17

Oh, actually, sorry, my point just came to me. Yes, please do. I was chatting with um one of the coaches at the gym today, Chuck. Yep. Um who trains at Kapincho Jiu Jitsu, which is with Antonio, okay, you know, like a Sydney boy. Um heard great things about the gym. He was saying he's been going lately, he's been doing three sessions a week, two regular sessions, and then one fundamentals class. Okay. And I was like, what's the fun? He's like, uh I was like, is that just like sort of more basic shit? He said, yeah. He said it's mad. He's a he's a four striped purple belt. Like he'll be a brown belt. I thought he was a brown belt. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And um, and he's like, Oh, it's actually mad because I'm just sharpening up on basic stuff that. Doesn't get taught in the other classes that I learned a long time ago that I need to keep refreshing. Yeah. And it made me think he's not the first light colored belt that I've met that has that has said that they get a lot from going to a fundamentals class. And I think that, you know, that's a that's the writing's on the wall there, right? When you've got a high-level student, because I can see, I'm like, yeah, fundamentals class would be great. It'd be awesome to just explore those basic, like bread and butter sort of constants of jujitsu technique that are underpinning all of the other more flashy stuff you're learning. Sure. But I know as well, you drift away from it. And you forget things. You do. You need to refresh. Yeah. And then you even you see it on you see it on Instagram, you see some fucking old school guy say, you know, like a um uh who's that motherfucker? Pedro Sauer. Sure. You know, and he's a great speaker, and he and then he says some little quip on, you know, about you know, something that always do this, like some kind of concept. And you're like, oh, that's a wonderful concept, of course. Yeah, I've heard that, or I I mean to do that, but I it wasn't in my mind. I think that that is a student saying, like that, that that that attendance of colored belts at fundamentals class is them voting for I'd like to just learn more basic shit more often and rehash the same shit all the time.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Yeah, you know, and I I want to just I wanted to kind of parcel this up with this idea of the prime uh we talked about like a is I think it's primacy and recency. So it talks about that the space is approximately six to seven days. So if you started learning something on the Monday, you do need to come back to it around Saturday and Sunday. So look, learning jujitsu and forgetting what happens at class sucks. But the thing you have under your control, you don't have your instructor under your control, but as an individual, I believe if you learnt something on Monday and you didn't get a chance to like experience it again in class through the week, Saturday open mat or Sunday or like that space of five to six days, that's when you get back in with your classmates and people who are at the same class on Monday and go, hey, can we go back over that thing? I believe that is gonna go a long way to stopping you from like just losing all this time. Because without memory, it's like yeah, it's fun, but it doesn't build to anything.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

No, it's way more satisfying to be able to train and know that you are absorbing at least the bulk of what you're covering is a very satisfying thing. And you feel your jiu-jitsu getting better. You feel this is like five, this is what I'm here for.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

Yeah, just build some momentum and and retain that info. There it is, folks. Learn up.