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Sandbag Versus Barbell Debate

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Sandbag versus barbell. Which is better and why? Now I've had debates with folks, uh Joey, about maybe a sandbag is better for grapplers to get stronger faster than a barbell. Now I know folks love the barbell and they say nothing is better than the barbell for getting strong. And you know, then there's folks who say, who cares? It's general strength adaptations. And I say, well, let's get into it. Because they each have pros and cons. And I think there's more people using barbells and sandbags, and I think a sandbag is handier than people imagine. Yeah. Now you've played around with both throughout your times. And uh yeah, I wanted to get into it a little bit of our individual experiences and then talk about how people might choose. You know, they might already be using barbells at the gym, but maybe a couple sandbags at home could be could be handy, could be an

Getting Strong Fast With Sandbags

SPEAKER_01 0:56

addition. So I was first introduced to sandbags when I was training with my Russian coach Ifim, and I was doing kettlebell training, doing a bunch of stuff, and it was in the context of strong man, and I had to hoist these things and carry them, and it was so taxing and so hard. I was like, this is way harder than something you can actually close a grip on because you just it's so unwieldy and unmanageable, and it's like I found like my whole body got so tired so quickly hoisting sandbags and carrying them. I just like I just felt like it was some of the hardest training I'd ever done. But also, I got fucking strong fucking quick. Like initially a 40 kilo sandbag, 80 pounds, 100 pounds, was hard. Within a week or two, it was like that's not hard. And I started jumping up. And so the thing about a sandbag, which is is kind of challenging, but you you kind of deal with it, you don't find them in one to two kilo increments. You know, you don't have that variability of a barbell where you can just chip away, chip away a little bit more, a little bit more. You've kind of got to jump 20, 20 pounds or 10 kilos, like if you've even got enough sandbags to do that.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

It's often even more than that, right? It's like 10, 20, it's like 20 kilos. It can be.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But man, I got strong fucking fast. And that time in my life, it was around kind of my brown belt, it just just on getting my brown belt, it was probably the strongest and fittest I had ever been in terms of uh both worlds aligning. And it was because I was doing strong man conditioning, so I was doing strongman lifts, but I was doing heaps of carries and heaps of timed work and heaps of um output work, and sandbags was probably 40-50% of it, and I I remember everybody at the gym just being like, What the fuck are you on? What are you taking? And uh yeah, it was grit. That's what it was.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Did you do with that coach? Did you do barbell work also?

SPEAKER_01 2:51

I did do some barbell work. I was doing barbell work once a week. Yeah, but I was doing more sandbags, tire flips, kettlebell stuff like two, three times a week. Yeah, okay.

COVID Home Training And Beach Sand

SPEAKER_01 3:01

So there was still some barbells in there. So I'm you know, I'm not saying this exclusively, but then during COVID, um, I didn't have barbells because basically, I don't know if you remember, Joe, but home fitness equipment was off the shelf, bro, rare, expensive. Stuff that would have cost you a hundred bucks now costs five hundred.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

Like, yeah, and everywhere it was sold out.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Yeah, basically. But I'll tell you what was not sold out, Joe, sandbags. It's just a canvas bag, and obviously it's better if you get the more technical ones with Velcro and zips and stuff. But I tell you what, there's lots of sand at the beach, Joe. A few Siggy butts in there.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

You just went and filled up Bronx and Kilda.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

Mate, lucky I didn't get any syringes. Mate, there was this old European guy. I was down there with like a fucking, like a soup ladle, like a like a plastic soup, like just trunk. This old European guy just fucking smoking a sig watching me. Like, mate, smoking shit out of he's fucking stealing this fucking he's still on the beach. Is that allowed? He's looking at me with great distaste. But here's what I didn't really factor in. I had made like a hundred kilo sandbag. I was on sand, so I I was trying to hoist it on sand and then get it up the stairs to the promenade to then get it to my car. And this Euro guy must have gone through probably six sigs in the time it took me to get this bag to the car, and I was so wrecked.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

I'm gonna fucking sit here and watch this bonehead.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

And he and he was just like, What you doing? What what's what's this? And I said, Oh, it's a sandbag. He's like, For what? I said, exercise. And he was so disgusted, he just like threw the cigarette down, walked off, like didn't spit in my direction, but it felt like that. He's like, What are you doing to yourself? But yeah, man, I had three sandbags in the basement with some kettlebells, and it I got so strong in COVID just hoisting those motherfuckers. And yeah, I think it's really underestimated because the grips you take are are similar to to no geek grappling. Like I I I can't emphasize what it's done for me in terms of my overall strength for grappling. It's it's I can't promote it enough.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

Yeah, I think um, well, I mean, yeah, sandbags

Why Barbells Win On Precision

SPEAKER_00 5:12

are great. I think um, you know, it it would be interesting to be able to experience it all from the other direction, which is growing up doing sandbags all the time. And then and then someone going, Hey, have you tried this thing called a barbell? Yeah, because you'd be like, oh my god, it's so comfortable to grab a hold of. I can hoist them. And I've got all these excess, I can put it in this thing, they call it a rack, and you can get under it, you know, and you're like, and it's got the plates just slightly, you can it can be 20 kilos, and then like five seconds later, it can be a hundred kilos, right? Like it you don't have to empty the sand and cat, you know. 100%. And and I think that that's you know, that's what the barbell gives us is it's ergonomic for strength work, right? It goes on the rack, slide the plates on, you can make it exactly what you want it to be, and and in that way it's it's very repeatable. Yes. Um, but you know, we can only come at it from the from the from the you know the way that we have experienced the whole thing. What I like about sandbags is the fact that they are a bit organic and a bit kind of it's sort of rough and ready. And so in that way, it's like maybe your grips change a little bit. Some days it feels a bit more comfortable. Some day like your Cerberus bags are really nice to lift. They're great. We got some other ones at our at Jungle Botany. Still good. Yeah, they're still good, they're all great, but that we got these dingo ones, they're they're they're a bit floppy. Yeah, sloppy. And you're like, oh, this motherfucker's hard, you know. And so, but it goes away from that thing of because the barbell is so refined and accurate, the barbell is always about how much weight is on it. Yes, right? If you're squatting, it's always relevant to what you squatted last week, or you know, and and you never want to go backwards, right? Whereas with the sandbag, it you don't care that much. It's just like, oh, like I've got it up now, I'll just do extra reps. Potentially. What bag do I have? Yeah. Or fuck, that feels super heavy today. You know, I'll just do some extra with this one. And I like I do like that because it it takes the pressure off and it makes it somehow a bit more just about like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

No, I I agree with, I I agree with you. I but I would say that I I'm pretty fortunate. I got a bunch of sandbags, so I can kind of choose there's a 40, there's a 60, there's an 80, you know, kind of work your way up. Um with the like you say, the barbell is refined, right? Like maximal weight, like the maximum force you can produce, the maximal weight you can hoist, whether it be a deadlift or a clean a power clean, a Olympic clean, a snatch, like that's proven to be the most weight you can hoist at any one time. But I've seen folks that can deadlift a lot of weight not be able to put a heavy sandbag to their shoulder. Do you know what I mean? So from from the perspective of a transferable skill, I believe that if you are a grappler who doesn't have access to a gym, you can buy five sandbags for the price of one barbell. You know what I mean? And I think that's the thing that we take for granted that everyone's got access to a gym. And a good barbell is worth a grand, two grand, like you know, like an Olympic.

SPEAKER_00 8:16

Yeah, yeah, with plates and all the shit. Yeah, it's and you want to get racks for it, like it's it's a big kit.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

Yeah, and if you're someone who's at home in the garage, you know, people default to like, oh, I'll get a bench, you know? I'll I'll get a bench and I'll I'll get a bar and some weights. And well, actually, I I think that there's huge benefits in just being able to lift this thing to your lap and put it to your shoulder or put it overhead, which it is rawer. It's it is less skilled. I will say that. I even though there's technique to it, you've got to kind of find the way it works for you.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

Yeah, and you sort of only need one or two sessions with it to get the skill. Yeah. Whereas if you're learning how to clean a barbell, you need a lot of sessions. It's a long time to to sort of get, you know, I have been proficient.

Technical Lifts And Coaching Reality

SPEAKER_01 9:02

More recently, I will admit, I will confess, Joe, I've been getting private lessons for Olympic lifting.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

I've been training with uh Kyle Bruce, who is one of Australia's motherfucker's got two first names. I don't trust he's Australia's most achieved Olympic uh of the modern era. Like he is Australian born. Um he got silver at the com games, he got robbed, he got awarded gold. Yep, and they did a they did a re re-config, and they reckon he pressed he pressed out a little bit on his last, so he ended up getting silver. Right. He went to the Olympic Games, he's a fucking beast. You've probably seen him on Australian strength coaches page where Australian strength coaches like look at this guy, he doesn't know what he's doing. He's got Olympic lifting shoes on, he's got straps. This is a terrible deadlift, and he just cleans it, jerks it, you're like, God damn. Kyle's a beast. So you've been doing private with him.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

You want to get better, or this is a part of strongman?

SPEAKER_01 9:57

This is a part of strongman, right? Being able to hoist a barbell above your head.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

This is like a jujitsu guy getting a judo coach. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Right. Yeah, and I and and I don't love Olympic lifting, I'll be completely honest. I it's not my jam. Because I I know how technical it is. I tried to get good at it before and I sucked. And it's not something that you can get good at just doing once a week. It it's you have to go so deep to get good at it because it's so technical. But I tell you what, give me a fucking sandbag, you give me a month, I'll hoist that motherfucker up. It doesn't matter. So, in that way, I actually believe there's a huge benefit to it not being as technical to being rawer, it's a much more raw form of force production, and yeah, just being able to being able to hoist.

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SPEAKER_00 11:46

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Carries And Conditioning That Transfer

SPEAKER_00 12:24

your order. I mean it's also fucking soft, and we have to take that into account. Like you can drop it on your foot and it doesn't hurt you. Yeah, and just like lifting a metal, like a steel bar, like it's it's fucking pain, like it's uncomfortable, right? Yes, like especially you know, especially if you're learning Olympic lifting, yes, catching on your collarbone, like your wrist aren't love it, like all that shit. All of it. Whereas a sandbag, like motherfuckers like soft and pliable, you know.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

And I mean, look, it it is awkward, but I I think if you're someone who's always trained with barbells, and it's it's interesting that you said that before, that it'd be interesting to have someone who's only just done sandbag work and then get them on a barbell. And yeah, of course, the contrast is going to make a difference, right? You get a different stimulus, it's gonna, it's gonna have an effect simply by the the different nature of it. But I think in terms of any jujitsu person, most people are more familiar with a normal gym environment where you've got dumbbells, barbells, machines, you know, machine, uh treadmills, whatever, right? It is rare that someone has been exposed to lifting stones or lifting sandbags or anything like that. Now I'm I'm a mad person who went out and spent a couple grand buying stones. You know, I had them delivered to Jungle Bottom.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

I remember, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

They were in the container, weren't they?

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Yeah. And uh that was brought up by uh Mason from Stand or Submit. Shout out, Mason, he's a fucking legend. And what I even though I love stones, and actually in some ways, stones are easier to lift because they're rigid. Yeah, you can kind of brace against them, and so you can roll them.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

It's the same dimension every time. Every time.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

Whereas a sandbag, it's fucks around on you, and the heavier it gets, it kind of gets longer, it gets awkward, and there's pros and cons to that. But man, I I found that like when I couldn't use stones, and I did use sandbags, it it's so transferable. And the thing that I wanted to talk about, which just goes beyond lifting, is carrying. Carrying a sandbag and dropping it, it doesn't matter. You don't, it doesn't matter if you drop it on grass, you don't need a lifting platform, you drop it on concrete, drop it on your foot, you can drop it in your fucking apartment on tiles. Yeah, it won't smash. Yeah, you know, so there's there's actually something that's underrated or probably not understood by most folks that it's incredibly versatile for training anywhere.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

I told you one of the best, most memorable workouts I ever did. Yes, and probably the best workout I ever did was this group workout at a fitness conference, and it was run by Julian Pinault. Yes, who was yeah, and it was sandbags, and it was fucking so simple. It was go and get a bag. Everyone ran and grabbed a bag. I ended up fucking, it was the last one there. It was super heavy. And then it was like the workout is this line and then 30 meters away, this line. You're gonna do five squats and then carry the bag, and then do five squats and carry the bag and do it. I think we did it for seven minutes. Oh my god. And it was like, don't stop. If you have to stop, don't put the bag down. Find a way to rest without putting the lap. Yeah, and you squat. And it was the most fucking savage workout, but you're just locked in on this thing, you know, and you're like, oh fuck, and you're there, I'll be like, I'm not putting it down. Um squatting and carrying, you know what I mean? For seven minutes, fundamental, yeah. Like it was great, and I was like, fuck me, this is really ironing. Like they didn't have to really coach any skill. No, I mean, everyone there was kind of into it, so it was like you just find a way to make it happen, right?

SPEAKER_01 15:49

Yeah, but how worked were you off just seven minutes? Oh, it's cooked, mate. Yeah, and so more recently I've been doing carries, like that's that's in the next strongman competition. You've got to like run a sandbag as fast as you can, load it, run back, grab another sandbag, pick it up, run it. Wow, you gotta you gotta move. There's no chilling. Yeah, it fucking cooks you. Like, you will get stronger, but you'll also get fitter, and I think there is a massive value in that. Now, can you carry a barbell around? You could Ronnie Coleman that shit, you can chuck it up on the shoulders and do walking lunges in the car park wearing your yellow tights.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

But it's not convenient.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

No, and I and I think that this fucking it's a wide load. It's you might just take someone out. Yeah, you're in the gym, just being that weird guy. Shout out Ari Tabak. I've been making him do weird shit in the gym. And people are like, fuck, who's this guy? Jiu-Jitsu guys are all the same, fucking weird.

Home Training Convenience And Cost

SPEAKER_01 16:42

Um where I'm trying to get to with this is at the end of the day, I think what we take for granted in some of our conversations is that people always go to the gym. And more recently, I've been talking to folks who are like, What the fuck else do they do? Well, they live their life and maybe they've got a garage and they're like, you know what, I just like to do some shit at home because it's convenient.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

Like woodwork, I hear you.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

Yeah, but it's just like you know, you you you've like, fuck, I've only got 20 minutes, what can I do? Yeah, I've got some dumbbells, I got a pair of dumbbells, and I've got a fucking sandbag. I'm gonna do some, you know, do some bear hug squats, carries, fucking shoulder press, like you just you bust three moves, that's a really good workout. Yeah, and it's cheap and it's efficient. Yeah, you know, there's there's so much stuff in this world which is expensive. And even I I found hanging out with power lifters, you know, people are wearing belts like weight belts that cost 400 bucks, you know, wrist wraps that cost 50 bucks. You're like, really? Like it's so much money in this accessorization. Yeah, and I I think what's great about a sandbag is when you buy it, it might cost you a hundred bucks, and maybe the sand costs you 20, 40 bucks, it's done. Provided it's a good bag, it doesn't leak anywhere, it lives forever. You know what I mean? Like, I think and there's you there's huge value in the low maintenance, simple option, and that's where I see sandbags being greater than a barbell. Because a barbell, you do have to look after it, it will rust. You have to, you know, you gotta kind of put it away, you have to store it somewhere. Most barbells, you can't fit in a fucking car. You know, there's so many elements that outside the context of a gym, a barbell is not great. It doesn't, it's not as good as it could be, right? I feel the simplicity of a sandbag and having experienced the benefits of it trumps everything that comes with a barbell. And I know people are gonna get upset about that, but until you fuck with the sandbag, y'all don't know.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

So, yeah, fair take. I think I think it's extremely efficient for the home for home use. Yeah, and I and I think that you will absolutely get strong as fuck, and it just I mean, we've spoken about some of the benefits, but like if if something is technically easier to access, then you can get to making the gains faster. Yes. And so, like, if you're learning to squat, just picking up a bag and doing fucking bear hug squats is the most ergonomic way to squat.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

It is the easiest way to get somebody who is not a good squatter to squat, more so than getting them perfect fit.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Fixing their back squat, fucking yeah, all the shit that comes along with that.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

And also another huge benefit which I think people don't appreciate is you're working your back and your front at the same time. Yeah. Like loading up in the front is working the shit out of your abs. Like I think this is something that maybe people who do front squats will appreciate, but when you put that load at the front and it's heavy, and you got to kind of grit through that, you'll feel all your back muscles, but you're working the shit out of your abs too. And I and doing that standing does so much for protecting your back and and just building like being a robust human.

A Fair Case For Both Tools

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Now, clearly that was a very biased assessment of sandbags versus barbells. However, barbells are fucking awesome for many reasons. No, I love a barbell. But I think you know, it's kind of they're they're sort of the um they're the already established thing, right? So sandbags are like the new thing on the block.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

But how many, how many million people are out there going like barbell, barbell, yeah, it's every motherfucker. Yeah. It is the I would say it is the number one tool for strength development. Yeah. You would say conditioning. Absolutely. Yeah, it's it's the most done thing. And I feel like now being privy to more people getting into strongmen and watching them do sandbag stuff, I'm like, oh, interesting. Then not they might be great on the barbell, but they really struggle with the sandbag. Now, obviously, I don't have any scientific studies. I know that people will be like, show me the data, and eventually I will have the data, I'll bring it to you. But um, I I think that if you had a grappler who had never lifted, you give them one month with progressive loads in in sandbag training, they will be more beastly than if you just had them doing exclusively on barbell. I know there's plenty of folks who'll say nay, but I know also you could just go buy a sandbag right now for under a hundred bucks and get going. Whereas it will cost you fifteen hundred dollars to get a good barbell, and you would probably need a coach to get real good. You know what I mean? Now, obviously, there's folks they got barbells at home, they're hoisting, they're doing whatever, but I'm all about empowering the people, Joe.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

I did once have a guy leave my gym to start powerlifting in his garage, and he had a barbell and two milk crates, and he would fill the milk crates up with rocks, and then he would just put he'd just slide them onto the barbell. That's like he had an Instagram account called Brick Training. Wow, that's that's impressive. Yeah, bro, he did it for years. I'd run into him, I'd be like, How's it going in the garage? He'd be like, Good, good. Yeah, like fuck's still going, that's great.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Man, you gotta you gotta give it to people. I love home gym innovators, and uh I I I I guess I'm trying to appeal to more folks because I know you know 24-7 gyms, cheap ass gyms, but everyone knows it's a shit experience, right? Yeah, you go in there, there's too many people, you can barely access equipment, it's it's it's trash. But I mean, all I want to do right now is like I said, there's already a lot of barbell advocates, and I use barbells,

The One-Month Sandbag Challenge

SPEAKER_01 22:12

I love them. But if I can make a really strong case, if you go and you buy a really good sandbag which has velcro and zips, not just tie up, and you just get two-thirds your body weight, and you play around with that motherfucker. You don't even have to follow our program or anything, you can just look up exercises on the internet, you do that once or twice a week, in a month, you will be so much stronger, and you'll surprise yourself. You can thank me later.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

Oof